Another SP Forum?

[Breezy]

I am amazed that the community is so Balkanized. First TGN & SP Camo, then Matrix, then Wargamer, then the SPWAW Depot , now here. Are there any more? No wonder the Matrix Forums are so quiet. Do you also post to Bernie's and Matrix Forums and the Yahoo SP Camo groups?

I came here for help with TOAW but I have a lot of experience with SPWaW as a long time member of Wild Bill's Raiders

Brent Grenadier Richards

[Aries]

Everything evolves Brent.

It's not just Steel Panthers, in the last few years, I have seen places come and go for hosts of reasons.

Matrix Games might have begun as Steel Panthers, but every game has its day, and then it becomes only a focal point of it's fans.

Matrix Games could never be expected to be just Steel Panthers after all.

Once SP Camo gets their Windows friendly versions up and available, you can bet, the entire Steel Panthers community, all flavours there of, will be drawn to it like ants to a picnic.
It will be the "in" thing for months.

I consider myself a "Steel Panthers player", but I call no version my version of preference. I also call no one forum better that the other.
But, if a forum is only one game, then it can only offer one game.

Wargamer is really when you want to be brutal about it, just an extension of Matrix Games. So when you mention Wargamer, you're still mentioning Matrix Games.
The Depot is really just Matrix Games to a point. It's that the Depot is only Steel Panthers, that has them limited. That's not a negative, it's just what it is.
SP Camo is no different. They're about their game.
I come here, because Warfare HQ is about wargaming, and they include Steel Panthers as a sub section, because it is a significant wargame.
You get something unique going to the other various forums. It all comes down to whether the "unique" matters.
Matrix Games is where you buy Mega Campaigns.
Wargamer has a large file archive.
The Depot has all those endless OOB variations.
SP Camo is the "other" Steel Panthers.

I like how I can discuss any of it here. And not be limited by any of the groups potentially not being interested in any of the other.

I am here for so much other than Steel Panthers though as well.
Thus, if it's a quiet day in Steel Panthers discussions, I just move on, and discuss something else.
It's unlike discussing "something else" is ideally of any value in the other areas. They are what they are (those other areas).

Calling the Matrix Forums "quiet" though, is an amusing comment. Considering a person can't even pretend to keep up with everything.
Matrix Games is not the SPWaW forum. Hasn't been that way since at least 2003.

They have now even potentially branched out into board games with Mark L Walker's Lock n Load design.
Not sure what that will bring. Predominant view seems to be no one wants a board game, they just seem to think a board game is a waste of time. I think Mark making a computer game is a redundant effort. It won't be singularly different from plenty of perfectly good, well established, squad level tactical wargames (Steel Panthers being one of them. The market can use a well made, yet simple squad level board game, but there is no need for a computer version. To much been there done that.

Balkanised? No. I see it more like the game is done, now the only thing left, is for the fans to fiddle with it if it floats their boat.
I would like to get the SP Camo versions for Windows of course. Anything that makes running them not require me finding an old computer set up and the old 98SE OS (which I have no use for otherwise).
The Depot guys are hard at work makinmg their "perfect" OOBs.
To date, I haven't really put any interest in getting any of it. Maybe, if they finally decide they are finished, they can collect it all into a single file. Otherwise, the game was finished with 8.3, and I don't really care if this or that file is out of sync with someone's interpretation of the reference tomes.

And that's about it eh.

Some times, the game IS done, really.

I have plenty of games, that I likely could endlessly download endless minor twitches from the fans.
But in most cases, it really doesn't do much beyond make it hard to store a reliable consistent file copy.
No one has an endless supply of discs to keep all the endless nitpicking minor fiddlings straight.

I have not lost any liking for the game personally.
But I also haven't played the game in any meaningful way since the Mega Campaign Screaming Eagles design team effort either.
I will likely get back into it eventually. Probably play up a lot of the SP Camo effort when it arrives.

I stopped posting to a number of forums actually where I am concerned. Not just Steel Panthers ones.

[Breezy]

Thanks for the reply. I have to admit that for a long time I was burned out on SP. I put my heart and soul into the Raiders and Matrix Games. It took a big commitment of my life and after 2 years of working on Combat Leader after a year of making Lost Victories MC, I needed to get away from the silicon wars.

I am always concerned when I see something new come along to break the community into smaller groups. I often miss the camaraderie of the old TGN mail list and SP2WW2 when the Raiders and SP Camo were one and the same on working for one game, SPWW2. The decision to go in separate camps put me in a position where I had to choose between the camps and I made my choice, losing connection with many old comrades like Dale Hight and Guderian and Ivan

I have to disagree with your comment about Matrix not being the SPwAw forum since 2003. If that had been the case there would not have been a final Matrix version 8 or even a Generals Edition. David Heath made his decision to commit resources to it because of the clamor on the forums. I know becuse I along with Bill Wilder and Paul Vebber, was part of that decision.

In the end it is the versatility of SP that keeps it going year after year and like the church, the longer you are around the more splintered you become. The game is 10 years old and is still being played by thousands. I am amazed the megacampaigns keep selling, happy, but amazed.

I want to open up my horizons which is why I bought TOAW. I always preferred operational combat and used to play SSG's Panzer Battles for hours and then redesign the OOBs for the battles like converting the Crossing the Dnieper 1941 into bagration 1944. Most wargames nowadays like Uncommon Valor or the John Tiller operational games do not have the editors to make your own maps and so I believe that TOAW will give me the same flexibility that SPWaW did to make my own scenarios and graphics. At least I hope so. Each time I try to go back to SPWaW I cannot get the same enthusiasm I felt before which is a loss for I have a couple dozen unfinished scenarios including the remaining scenarios to the Cross of Iron series and revisions to the Road to Berlin series along with a huge map of Berlin that is 2/3 done. At least the Tempelhof portion was used in Screaming Eagles. I never finished playtesting MCSE for Bill either. At least Fabio Prado updated my Wittmann scenarios so thay play with ver 8. I haven't even upgraded to 8 myself. I still use 7.1 because I do not want to go through the hassle.

[Double Deuce]

I am amazed that the community is so Balkanized. First TGN & SP Camo, then Matrix, then Wargamer, then the SPWAW Depot , now here. Are there any more? No wonder the Matrix Forums are so quiet. Do you also post to Bernie's and Matrix Forums and the Yahoo SP Camo groups?

I came here for help with TOAW but I have a lot of experience with SPWaW as a long time member of Wild Bill's Raiders

Brent Grenadier RichardsAlways nice to see an SP veteran around. One thing i have tried to do here is bring a feeling that ALL versions of SP can be found here. No preference for any version or anything that would further the "Divided Camp" mentality.

[Secret Agent]

Always nice to see an SP veteran around. One thing i have tried to do here is bring a feeling that ALL versions of SP can be found here. No preference for any version or anything that would further the "Divided Camp" mentality.

Well, just to let you know, I would have never even guessed that there was any friction about SP versions! Good moderating, good members, or both!

[Goblin]

Damn, that's rough to hear, Brent!

I hope that you can rekindle that spark sometime; your work is some of the stuff that hooked me on the game in the first place!

I think Aries is partially right about the Matrix forums since they announced that they were done with SPWaW, but you are correct also. The chatter there pushed them along further than they had planned, and its great that they did!

I like to see new SPWaW sites pop-up! It means that somewhere, someone is playing this game, and dedicating resources to expand, promote, and improve it. Thats good news to me.

Good to hear from you Brent!


Goblin

[Goblin]

I forgot:

We have found at least a dozen and a half SPWaW sites, including Japanese, Polish, and German sites (to name just a few of the countries)! There are alot out there!


Goblin

[Goblin]

The Depot guys are hard at work makinmg their "perfect" OOBs.

Thanks for the compliment!

Judging from the amount of discussion going on, they will be far from 'perfect', but they will please a clear majority. We are using a system where all mistakes, changes, etc are posted by members, discussed by members, and then voted on by members. Everyone may participate, and we only go ahead with changes that have a large majority in favor. Almost all are based in fact, with references, and some are just minor issues like a tank in one nation that is identical to a tank in another nation yet have a slightly different turret armor for no reason.

Its a slow process, but many people believe it will improve the game somewhat.

One other thing! Thank Matrix for Modswapper!!!!! The mods that are out there now, and the ease that Modswapper enables changing them with, makes that a five star offering from Matrix!


Goblin

[the_redstar_swl]

I post a lot more at the Depo and the SPCAMO Yahoo! groups

[Double Deuce]

I want to open up my horizons which is why I bought TOAW. I also have this although I only just re-installed and starting to play around with it.

[Double Deuce]

I am amazed that the community is so Balkanized. First TGN & SP Camo, then Matrix, then Wargamer, then the SPWAW Depot , now here. Are there any more? No wonder the Matrix Forums are so quiet. Do you also post to Bernie's and Matrix Forums and the Yahoo SP Camo groups?I post at the Yahoo SP CAMO boards only rarely (only because I hate the board layout yahoo uses and for me is difficult to follow). I do post to the Depot more frequently but mostly go there to read. The amount of information/tips found there are mind boggling.

[Goblin]

I post at the Yahoo SP CAMO boards only rarely (only because I hate the board layout yahoo uses and for me is difficult to follow). I do post to the Depot more frequently but mostly go there to read. The amount of information/tips found there are mind boggling.

We love you too, DD!

:love:


Goblin