What's up with "official" sources for games

[Aries]

Ok, just got home from shopping.

Staples Office Depot, a large chain store, Several copies of Gary Grigsby's World at War fresh onto the market only very recently.

59.00 Canadian. (Staples rarely has cheap software though).
Same price as Matrix Games, Digital Download plus the 10 bucks to get a box manual and cd (I will assume it is the same box manual and cd as the retail offering till told it is not).

Over next door at Zellers, a major chain store. 39.00 Canadian.
Exact same article. Several copies on the shelf.

This game is fresh out on the market, not a bargain bin casualty either.

What gives?

I go over to HPS, any title I look at, greatly reduced price over at http://store.navalwarfare.org/ Current example, France 40, is 39 Bucks from the source, 29 bucks from Navalwarfare.

I am all for supporting yer local producer of quality wargames.
A fine noble aspiration. Right up to the point where doing so makes no sense.

I always thought, go to the source, get a better price than the price the middle man gives you, because the middle man wanting to make a profit adds something to the source cost to make a buck.

Thus, I would think a 49.00 digital download, would logically be a superior price to buying the full retail copy at a retail outlet.

What gives?

I smell something rotten in Denmark.

I know plenty of guys that buy every darned game that comes down the pike out of some sort of out of control flinch disorder. They buy everything, day one, without a care. Great for them.

I know plenty of guys that will wait till the game is languishing in a bargain bin, simply because they actually "won't" knee jerk purchase every darn game under creation, regardless of the hype.

But, how many have heard the lamentations of the poor publisher losing sales, not getting full credit for the hard work?

I'm not buying it any more. Not after today bucko.

When I can buy a wargame for 39 bucks full retail copy, instead of 49 or 59 bucks and just a digital downloaded file or the full product option, should I want said game, at a retail establishment of my choice, a retailer that doesn't even focus on software (so no blathering about how places like EB are making "unfair deals" or "dumping games below cost", then I have to wonder if I really care if the publisher makes enough sales at their much higher cost.

I mean come on, I have to be given a modicom of credit here eh. Buying straight from Matrix Games for 59 bucks to get the full deal effect (includes shipping and all the taxes), but there's the wait (using GGWaW as my example), or just picking it up at a Zellers for 39 plus tax, no shipping so zero wait.
Matrix Games just lost a direct to consumer sale with that approach, and likely some cash somehow.

What can I say? It would be stupid to pay more.
Matrix Games to my mind "already made the sale", and they accepted a lot less cash so they could sell to me via Zellers.

So, I think it is a fair assertion, that GGWaW is NOT worth 49 bucks as a digital download. Certainly not 59 bucks with box and manual and cd.

Maybe it is time I stopped sympathizing with their assertion that some games are just to "complex" for lower price tags.
Phooey. They have been found out.
This isin't their first title out, nor their 5th title out.
They must by now have their act together. I would hope at least.

The source is either selling a large lot to a large chain at a massive loss in preferred sticker price, just so they can get a large sum of copies out the door. And then crying the blues when they have PR trouble with the prices at their own store.
Or their store prices actually ARE dumb and over priced.

Why would anyone want to pay a good deal more just to say they got it direct from Matrix Games? It's the same game! It's not old stock. It's not 6 months past its best moments on the market.

If they want me putting money directly into their pocket personally, they have to make it make sense to do it.

39 bucks at Zellers, but 30 bucks direct from Matrix Games. That would make some sense. That would get my fingers tapping on the keyboard and my credit card number involved.

But I don't care if they have sluggish sales at this point.

I am still unsure what's the deal with HPS.
Maybe they went to the same business school.

For those looking.
It's April 11th, and there's 4 copies of GGWaW on sale at the Lindsay Zellers for 39 bucks Canadian new. Why pay more?

[Pirimeister]

It's a pretty valid point you make there, Aries and it was something that has been puzzling me for quite sometime.

I can't see no plausible explanation for that, exept the remote possibility that Matrix and such only have those prices to catch teh casual, or unaware, buyer. Since any review of their products has their name, a potential buyer is likely to find the official site first and open his wallet right there and then. But what would be the point of getting 20 buck extra once in a while?


The fact is, I've read -not sure if it was on this forum, someone prefering to buy directly from HPs instead of going with NWS :crosseye: ...

[Aries]

As the saying goes, "a fool and their money, are soon parted".

Would Gary's game Gary Grigsby's World at War sell successfully, if the ONLY source was go online, and directly order it from Matrix Games through their site's store?

And not that it's mine or anyone's business, but how much did they sell it to Zellers for? And why am I not as valuable a customer as a retail chain, that likely could care less if the game sells at the original price, or gets heaved into the morass that is their other titles that are just schlock that doesn't want to move.

Are we fans, the back bone of the hobby, only good for free advertising through our constant posting on theirs or other forums?

Are we only deserving of a break, if we arrange to buy a thousand copies, even if we force Matrix Games to accept a massive reduction in unit cost?

Frankly, seeing it on the shelf at Zellers for 39 Canadian (full retail box too), and then seeing it listed as 59 bucks Canadian (for what is I hope full retail box version), is a betrayal, a slap in the face to me joe dedicated gamer. An indication I should elect to buy it as cheaply as possible, because the only one looking out for Les, is Les it seems.

It pains me to sound this way. But I am damned annoyed.
Not at all impressed. Let Matrix Games make great games, more power to them, but the guilt trip ends here.
If there is to be no reason to loyally support the company, then their is no point in remaining a loyal customer.

I might just as well do anything and everything that is within my grasp, to seek whatever edge, and whatever advantage is open to me. Right up to, and including, not so nice, not quite so fair, nasty methods.

What's good for Matrix Games is good for Matrix Games, and what's good for Les, is good for Les.

The customer is always right.

[MajorH]

Aries;

I agree with you that if something is $20 cheaper at a retail outlet than at a developer site then you ought to take the cheaper option.

However, I have to disagree with "The customer is always right". That comment makes me think that you have been fortunate enough to not have to work much as a front line sales person. :)

[Ivan Rapkinov]

the customers are generally idiots in my experience :D

[Secret Agent]

Aries;

I agree with you that if something is $20 cheaper at a retail outlet than at a developer site then you ought to take the cheaper option.

Now, didn't you say that TacOps was sold in Taiwan for $4? :D

[MajorH]

Now, didn't you say that TacOps was sold in Taiwan for $4? :D

Those were/are pirated copies. Aries was talking about buying from legitimate sources.

[Secret Agent]

Those were/are pirated copies. Aries was talking about buying from legitimate sources.

I realize that...I just couldn't help it, though! :hush:

[Iron Mike USMC]

A game publisher will sell their gamesonline for the same price as the suggested retail price, so they don't shoot themselves in the foot. If a retailer sells a game at $40 USD, and the publisher sells the same game online for $30, the retailer will likely stop, or reduce their business with the publisher. Everybody loses. The publisher and retailer lose their margins, the public loses an opportunity to purchase the new game.

The reason you see such varied prices on the store shelves is that different stores want different margins. A retailer like Staples, often sells products cheaper than specialty stores, but not always. Your local discount store makes its profits on volume, quick turnaround of merchandise. They therefore place lower prices on their merchandise, and get lower margins.

Retailers will also price their merchandise based upon how much shelf space they can devote to an item. The amount of shelf space, combined with the cost per square foot over time will affect the margin, and therefore the price of the merchandise.

Concerning whether or not an extra $10 is worth the outlay to get the box and printed manual, is a personal choice. I am willing to forgo the box and manual, so long as the manual is available on the CD, or the download. If you do not have CD-burning capability, then you should opt for the CD. If you have a broadband connection, or are willing to dedicate a few hours to a download, and can burn a CD, then copy the file to a CD for safekeeping.

Personally, I rarely buy a game when it hits the shelf. I am not often willing to pay $40 or $50 for a game. I wait a few months or so, until the price drops. If I must have a game, I will check online and with my local retailers to see who has the best price.

it all boils down to what you are willing to pay, and what you are willing to put up with or give up when purchasing a new game.

[Aries]

I understand what you said ironmike.

The problem though, is how can Zellers sell it at 39 Canadian profitasbly, when it sells at 59 Canadian otherwise?

I understand the idea of margin.

But how is it possible for the source to sell it at all to Zellers then?
This brings to mind, how much did Matrix Games get for each unit selling to Zellers?

Should I joe gamer, get to stomache buying direct from Matrix Games for 59 bucks, so that Matrix Games can make 10 bucks a copy profit from me (those numbers are not based on any information, I am just picking the number for math reasons), when they are willing to make 10 cents a copy from selling to Zellers, that has a large potential chance of reducing the price further later?

That means, they needed to sell 100 times as many units to Zellers (using my adhoc calculations of course), as they do to people buying from them direct.

Are they just dumping those copies and calling it shelf awareness and some sort of cost to advertise?

I have said in plenty of other places, I think they need to start thinking about intelligent targeted advertising if they want to make intelligent targeted sales.

I bought Battles in Normandy at the digital download price.
I had to get a printed copy of the manual through my own devices though. It's on 20lb 8.5x11" paper 3 hole punched and in a duotang.
I am likely happier with that actually.
As the included physical manuals for EYSA sucked large (faded indistinct images and micro type does NOT thrill me).
And the included manual for HTTR being both small and in black and white is inferior to large and in colour.
So I am not overly obsessed with an included manual.

I don't resent that purchase (BiN). It's a solid game.
But I felt good scoring HTTR off the shelf for a lot less than the direct from Matrix Games price.

I am feeling like a shift towards buying their games in the future, at the lowest most cut throat price possible.

I don't think their store is set up logically.

Everyone that wanted this game, knew about it a year ago though.
Everyone that wanted this game would have likely paid 59 bucks gladly from Matrix Games direct.
Using my math from above then, every sale direct, might well be as good and as useful to them, as selling 100 copies to Zellers.
So, did they ever need Zellers?
Is this all about telling the industry "we sold 10k copies, and thus our game is great?

As has been noted elsewhere by me, which makes the whole discussion here amusing, their game GGWaW actually has entirely crappy graphics. No I am NOT on board with praising this "wonderful game".
Thus, I am not going to be supportive of how "successful" it was for purposes of determining best game of 2005. Not if it's based on how many units they were able to abandon in Zellers.

And that's currently important to me.
I am not going to want to listen to the applause over the next year, about how great the game is, if it's all about units moved sales figures.
Hearts of Iron had great sales figures too.
And it was a piece of ****.

[Iron Mike USMC]

Aries,

There is no simple answer. You made a good point about volume. I am sure that is part of it.

There are so many variables when it comes to marketing and sales. Often a lot makes no sense. often those making the decisions don't have a clue.

Stores like Zellers, or any chain of stores, have some buying clout. They will strike a volume deal with a manufacturer, which allows them to sell at below market prices, and still makesome profit. Companies like Matrix are willing to lower their margins in order to achieve volume. The higher the volume, the lower the unit cost. (You get margin, so I assume you get volume/unit costs. This is for those who don't.)Then there are the niche or boutique shops. They will sell at the suggested retail price, possible not at a greater margin than the chains, because their volumes are lower. However, being that they are niche stores, they usually aren't afraid of selling at higher prices.

This all comes down to marketing, which plays on perception. If you are looking for a specialty item, are you more likely to go into a large chain store, on the off chance they might carry what you are looking for, or, go to the niche store which is known for carrying that or similar items? Likely the niche store. The niche stores know this, as well as the manufacturers. Therefore, they are not afraid of selling at the higher price. One, because they know they have the audience/clientele, and two, the perception of the public towards the store.

[Aries]

This much I know.

Previous visit, I saw not one, but several copies of Combat Mission in Zellers. Did quite the double take.

Yesterday, saw GGWaW in not one unlilkely spot but two.

Saw not one copy on the shelf yesterday, but 8 (adding both locations together).

In Staples, I had to ask about the price, as it was not marked on box. The young clerk was clearly expecting a 20-30 dollar price tag. The 59 actually price threw him off center hehe.

Managed to chat up the lad in Staples, as he was clearly just a lad with a Staples shirt on and not really savvy about wargames outside of the RTS genre. He was also a young lad.

I told him about the games I usually purchase.