'2020 points over 100 000 USA vs Ge AAR

[danstudentvcc]

Hello.
Dan vs Danstudentvcc.
MBT combat. Meeting Engagement. Over 100 000 points apiece.
Choppers coming out of our ears.
Dan's custom Berlin map.

Promises to be a real dinger of a matchup.

Presently both opponents are trading files to setup their forces and reinforcements before commencing with play.

danstudentvcc

[Dan]

The one thing I realy enjoy are large games. I think in a game like this you can have multiple offensives going as well as a hec of a lot of fun. I think attack Heliocopters are absolutley deadly and no force is complete without them. I think with arty. it is not such a big factor in such a mobile battle, you just don't know where your enemy realy is. I have always thought Urban warfare is kind of the funnest and most deadliest, That is why I think the map of berlin is well suited to such a game as this. I hope with a game like this the best player will win. I like the idea to raise the infantry toughness a little bit 120-150% It would make the infantry a little more deadly and useful. these are just some thought's. Dan :salute:

[Dan]

I tell you, with 130,00 points I have a very Elite lean and nasty machine, I think my troops would even have a place in Ronald Regans heart. :cheeky: Well Gus :toast: and cheers to a battle I won't soon forget. Gus I would realy like to play this game for ladder points. I think it will be a real blast. I hope you don't mind the name of the scenairio 2020 Berlin the End of Armegedon? Let's have fun. Dan :salute:

[danstudentvcc]

I tell you, with 130,00 points I have a very Elite lean and nasty machine, I think my troops would even have a place in Ronald Regans heart. :cheeky: Well Gus :toast: and cheers to a battle I won't soon forget. Gus I would realy like to play this game for ladder points. I think it will be a real blast. I hope you don't mind the name of the scenairio 2020 Berlin the End of Armegedon? Let's have fun. Dan :salute:

Certainly we can play for ladder points.
I thank you for your game's challenge. I look forward to our battle Dan.

The scenario name is quite appropriate: read below.

Today I will complete my last edits of replace unit with other type, then setup, without looking at my opponent's forces setup. Then after passwords we begin.

Unfortunately the German side does not have units as costly as the US side so the prestige of having the most expensive and up to date forces shall not be ours.

But we have Paratroopers. And we have the Leopard 2. As well we have the best IFV w/TOW capacity and the Leopard 1, which loves to hammer infantry with HE.
Lastly, we have the redoubtable Fuchs if needed to lead us in a battalion sized infantry assault! Hoooooorah! Hooooooooooooorah! Hoo!

Best of all we will be playing on an elite force rating so even our worst slob can hit a fruit fly off a Canadian ten cent piece at 2 miles!!

:love:

Need we say more?! :D


danstudentvcc

[Dan]

By the way. The fuch is a very useful vehicle. It does not have a lot of armour but it has an incredible movement, I think it is 35-36 movements and you have to like it. Not to mention that the speedy little vehicle can be amphibious. The US has somthing compatible as the fuch. The stryker is a very simmilar vehicle, Light armour good speed and amphibious. I'm looking forward to testing them out. The other vehicle I'm looking forward to experimenting with is the Stryker AGS, Fast and hard hitting. The only problem I see is with the ammo. I think they have 6he and 12 apcr. Not a lot ammo,but challenging. Good thing I have forifeid resuplly units. Dan :salute:

[Dan]

I just wanted to mention, the map of Berlin is not mine. I downlaoded it somwhere, I can't remember where. Dan :salute:

[danstudentvcc]

I just wanted to mention, the map of Berlin is not mine. I downlaoded it somwhere, I can't remember where. Dan :salute:

Well after a few edits it could be yours - certainly shared.
Hmm! I wonder, do the fortified ammo dumps give out ammo at a good rate or like molasses? Something like the outhouse being all nifty and everything with all the comforts of home but the Grizzly or Polar Bear that's not after your Kokanee or local beer between you and it kinda makes you ration your visits.
:D
danstudentvcc

[danstudentvcc]

Hello y'all. By the way the Berlin map comes with the game apparently. I think someone mentioned it in a thread in the SP forum that it is one of a series of Germany maps.

Good news on the apocalyptic battle Dan and Danstudentvcc are embarking on.
After a sleepless night of reviewing force compositions and trying to define a battle plan for the situation op I wrung a generous concession from Dan. He has allowed me to select an ally Nation to help out my beleagured W. Germans and their kit.
To this end I have selected a top notch country kit that can fulfill a much needed role in this coming battle [within a day or so start]. The country is Canada. :D

Hence it is now more aptly called USA vs The Free World. :D :D

Stay tuned.

DVCC

[Secret Agent]

Hence it is now more aptly called USA vs The Free World. :D :D


*silence fills the air*

[Me:]What did you say? :devil: :devil: :devil: :devil: :devil: :devil:

[Dan]

After a sleepless night of reviewing force compositions and trying to define a battle plan for the situation op I wrung a generous concession from Dan. He has allowed me to select an ally Nation to help out my beleagured W. Germans and their kit.
To this end I have selected a top notch country kit that can fulfill a much needed role in this coming battle [within a day or so start]. The country is Canada. :D

Hence it is now more aptly called USA vs The Free World. :D :D

Stay tuned.

DVCC I'm really interested in the top secret canaidian expiditionary force. I did not think my country had anything useful to offer except Beer and backbacon and babes:p and the word Ehhh. I think know what you took could it be one of our powerful new submarines :OHNO:

[danstudentvcc]

I'm really interested in the top secret canaidian expiditionary force. I did not think my country had anything useful to offer except Beer and backbacon and babes:p and the word Ehhh. I think know what you took could it be one of our powerful new submarines :OHNO:

Hello Dan.
No they just leak. Or catch fire in water. Or are nearing their final days as top tech British Equipment.

Just sent out the 2nd edit in the scenario editor.
Have not done any reinforcement edits so my entire force is on map; not sure what the rules are for using them so I decided to get feedback from you on how far forward they could be.

In addition I entered every one of my current PBEM SP opponents as Leopard 2 Company size tank commanders.
I am the Brigade commander.

So it will be interesting to see who Dan kills off first!
Bets anyone.:PIMP:

Danstudentvcc

[Dan]

I actually named only one unit to date, my brigaed commander. He has the official name of Ronald reagan, my favorite president. He realy did have a great sense of humor. Maybe I will name a few more in there when we edit again. Dan :salute:

[Skirmisher]

The senate sub committe asked Ron Reagan about the "contra weapons" and he replied, "well I don't know,I wasnt in the loop."
I guess your right he did have a good sense of humor :laugh:

[Double Deuce]

The senate sub committe asked Ron Reagan about the "contra weapons" and he replied, "well I don't know,I wasnt in the loop."
I guess your right he did have a good sense of humor :laugh:
At least he was original and didn't take the standard "I refuse to answer under the rights afforded me under the 5th Amendment". :laugh:

[Dan]

Well it's turn one and my Brigaed is on the move :skull: So far no sign of the bad guys. My troops are ready to rock and roll and at this very moment they putting the pedal to the metal and keeping our guns ready :ar15: I'm looking forward to turn 2 in this battle between good and evil :p Dan :flag: :salute:

[danstudentvcc]

Well it's turn one and ...

Hello. Turn one is complete and only the most minor of weapons firing has occurred.

The Canadian ADATs will have their effectiveness reduced in a city battle. However any attack helos that venture into their range/fire arc will face a shot that is more lethal than an Apache's Helfire round.

The company commanders [whq alias names on the tanks] are on the move.

The plan is quite simple: maul the American force without regard to losses.
The turn closed with arty planned by priority on targets of opportunity. The remaining fire was spent in anticipation of needed fire support. Not likely to land until turn 2 or 3.

Gus

[Skirmisher]

Dan,Commander of the US forces. The free world is counting on you. :jack:

ADAT's won't be a problem for you,just drop a liberal amount of cluster ammo all over them. :devil:

[danstudentvcc]

*silence fills the air*

[Me:]What did you say? :devil: :devil: :devil: :devil: :devil: :devil:

Holy cow I just got it.
I was playing a Modern SOV vs US/W Ge game as well with DAN.
So when I made the post [half asleep] I was thinking US vs the R E S T of the Free World.
But instead I answered myself with a yes I am tired and typed The Free World.

I 'll correct it now.

Thanks eagle eyed Sentry; good catch.

Gus

[danstudentvcc]

Dan,Commander of the US forces. The free world is counting on you. :jack:

ADAT's won't be a problem for you,just drop a liberal amount of cluster ammo all over them. :devil:

He has FASCAM but not much else.
I have the world's best tank w/ armor and penetration [Leopard 2]
The leanest meanest medium tank. Canada's Leopard 1.
The games toughest hitting and fastest firing SAM system the ADATs.
The best paratroopers and Infantry Fighting Vehicle [also from Germany].
The most experienced commander in danstudentvcc

:devious:

[Skirmisher]

LOL, There are a few tanks that are all on par. Top of the line models from US,UK,Russia,Germany,Isreal,just to name a few,will all ruin your day. :blab:

[Dan]

Well let me start by saying if I had a choice between the Adats system and the appache. I would take the Apachee anytime. The Adats system has a weakness even know it is world class and it's weakness is even more pronounced in the city. I'm not going to say what it is, I'm going to try to use it against it. Secondly I would say red rover, red rover bring the adats system over :cool: I might not have a ton of ARTY but I have realy good spoters, some with 124 Arty Experience wich means I can call down Arty with a .5 time allowance :nofear: I wonder what kind of a combo MLRS and FASCAM can do with a .5 time :joy: Remember you can try to run but you can't hide :ar15: I think regardless of our equipment, there is going to be a lot of casualties on both sides I think, but it is all fun :)

[danstudentvcc]

Well let me ... but it is all fun :)

Hello and happy weekend.
:)
Things are still quiet on the front. A minor amount of weapons fire on my command chopper otherwise not much to report.

Plotted arty arrives this turn.
All caved in buildings from previous turn was targetted.
All smoked hexes were targetted.
All flags that changed hand were targetted.
Some anticipated potential arrival locations were targetted but
at the rate we are both moving in hind sight it was wasted ammo.
But slowing an opp. with beat up terrain - once we get there location wise - is good cover for defence as well.

Otherwise all quiet.

danstudentvcc

[Dan]

Well I had a prety good turn but a lucky one. Looks Like the good old USA drew first blood this turn.
1xLeo2A6EX
1xBoxer IFV antitank vehicle
1xParatrooper sqaud

Hopefully next turn we can add to the total. :salute:

[danstudentvcc]

Well I had a prety good turn but a lucky one. Looks Like the good old USA drew first blood this turn.
1xLeo2A6EX
1xBoxer IFV antitank vehicle
1xParatrooper sqaud

Hopefully next turn we can add to the total. :salute:

Hello.
The US Army shoot up a few units last turn. It was inevitable. A Leopard 2 got left sitting out in the open after a mouse mis-click. Then, I failed to account for a road not behaving like a road and charging me 2 plus points per hex: hence an IFV got left out in the open as well.
This turn however the Germans and Canadians advanced some units some more.
Despite having Hellfire hurled at us few shots managed to detonate on the armour.
Many IFV also survived canon fire.
This turn a German Attack Helo shot down an Apache with its Stingers.
3 ADATs also moved forward and missed on their SAM shots.
A remaining ADAT scored a kill on another US attack helo. Both choppers were in the same hex.

This game shows early signs of being a bloody battle.

Danstudentvcc

[Dan]

Good day. Well, the battle just got realy bloody. My airmobile troops did a suicide raid deep into German teritory! The US loses so far are very light from the raid. On the other hand I expect to get hit by a mean and nasty counter attack. I expect to lose most of my transport helios but the Germans lost probably around a company or so of the highly regarded and top of the line Leo2a6 as well as probably another 5-7 Leo1a5's and on top of that I nocked out numerous Boxer IFV's. So I think my raid was quite a success. I would also like to thank Gus publicaly for his kind and generous patience :) I eagerly await his death onslaught on my air troopers. Dan :salute:

[danstudentvcc]

Good day. Well, the battle just got realy bloody. My airmobile troops did a suicide raid deep into German teritory! The US loses so far are very light from the raid. On the other hand I expect to get hit by a mean and nasty counter attack. I expect to lose most of my transport helios but the Germans lost probably around a company or so of the highly regarded and top of the line Leo2a6 as well as probably another 5-7 Leo1a5's and on top of that I nocked out numerous Boxer IFV's. So I think my raid was quite a success. I would also like to thank Gus publicaly for his kind and generous patience :) I eagerly await his death onslaught on my air troopers. Dan :salute:

Hello fight fans!

Well the Canadians and Germans counter-attacked the marauding US player's forces.
In this battle between the Freeworld's top Nation Forces we expect to see heavy losses on both opponent's forces.

The turn began with the slaughter of many Apache choppers. First the Leopard 2 and 1 tanks of Ge and Ca shot down Apache's and Blackhawks.
Then the ADATs moved forward and added to the cull of attack-helos.
As the dust settled infantry and Boxer IFV's added to the US losses both ground based and helo.
This was followed by several more successful Apache and Blackhawke kills by the German Attack Helos. Many rear shots were delivered.

In the end the US attack-helos were last seen retreating in an enormous gaggle.
Constantly nipped at by combined air/ground forces of Ge and Ca they retreated further.

The turn closed out with all but 2 or 3 US infantry units being executed where they stood!
:D
A long turn but a bloody turn all around.

danstudentvcc

[danstudentvcc]

Well it is turn 13 already. The Ge/Ca counter-attacks must have been quite effective. For this entire turn the sky was clear of Apache.
Now the game began with 20 Apache and 31 Blackhawks in Attack-Helo configuration. I believe I accounted for 10 kills and with an allowance of 3 to 4 retreating helos that would still leave over 35 surviving choppers. Egad!

My Ge Attack-Helos [20] have behaved quite well. Actually I let the ground forces deal with my opp's air force so they largely spent their ammo late in the counter-attack ... a Napoleonic pursuit. My other choppers don't carry weapons on them so I have loaded them with Leopard 1's and Boxer IFV's as well as infantry/ADATs/PzH2000 etc .. These transport choppers of Germany are among the fastest choppers in the game of MBT.

I fully expect my opponent to come rushing back again in a turn or two so I will post the Dead WHQ Alias Company commanders list next.


Dvcc

[Dan]

Hi ya all :) Well, I will first start by saying I protest the use of heliocopters carrying 40 ton MBT's as well as 54.13 ton Pz2000 arty peices including the carring 2Adats systems at the same time wich weiheg 34,000 pounds a piece!!!!! Now I have given this considerable thought and reasearch to back up my protest. The CH-53 which is the helocopter in question has a lift capability of 25,000 pounds or about 12 tons!!!! My reference books are called Fighting Vehicles of the world by Philp Trewitt & Chris Mcnab, My other reference book that I'm looking at is called World Military Avitation by Nikolus Krivinyi. The second thought is I would like a restart of the scenairo!!!!!! Any changes either player would like to make in the editor is fine with me to compensate for what I'm stateing. This whole thing to me is a little bit crazy I don't think there is a helocopter in the world or forseeable future that is capable of carrying a MBT!!!!! Other than that I do not wish to continue this scenairio. :salute: Dan

[danstudentvcc]

Dan are you going to complete your game or are you conceding the game to a decisive victory for Danstudentvcc.

I can't see how it is that you have been dealt with in a demeaning manner.

I ahve your emails:
You stated that we were to have a limit of 30 transport choopers:
you bought 31 and all of them came from the attack-helo buy screen:
when I pointed it out you suggested I put HE firing guns manually on my transport choppers but I was to remain with only 20 attack-helos against you.
Your 31 attack-helos [oops! transport helos] were in addition to 20 Apache that you also selected and stated - 20 attack helos should be enough.:
I guess 20 + 31 which equals 51 attack-helos is well bad arithmetic to say the least.

I wrote you about FASCAM stating that I had not bought any and that we should keep it out of the game since it is a game breaker and a sore point for all wargamers: You responded by buying FASCAM and not writing me that you had done so until the game was 'On'.

Should I continue?

Ok I'll skip the remainder and point out that you were insistent that we play for points 'laddr points'. I am ok with ladder points at any time win-loss ratio means nothing to me .. then you became insistent that we only play for a draw .. now you want to regulate the manner in which the game runs and how I should use my units as well.
?

I recommend you post in the forum for Steel Panthers and get other laises opinions. [Consult Double Deuce before hand so that he can ok the contents of any further threading as he would prefer the forum remain civil - I can't disagree. I know from past experience he wants the members to PM each other instead however I think you would gain from the experience. Lastly, don't forget to ask the aliases what they think of your opens to closes ratio is. I can say that mine is 100% 1 to 1 I even told you how to avoid having a mismatch should the game crash on you.]

I will post a decisive win if you unilaterally can the game.

Danstudentvcc
Danstudentvcc

[Dan]

Dan are you going to complete your game or are you conceding the game to a decisive victory for Danstudentvcc.

I can't see how it is that you have been dealt with in a demeaning manner.

I ahve your emails:
You stated that we were to have a limit of 30 transport choopers:
you bought 31 and all of them came from the attack-helo buy screen:
when I pointed it out you suggested I put HE firing guns manually on my transport choppers but I was to remain with only 20 attack-helos against you.
Your 31 attack-helos [oops! transport helos] were in addition to 20 Apache that you also selected and stated - 20 attack helos should be enough.:
I guess 20 + 31 which equals 51 attack-helos is well bad arithmetic to say the least.

I wrote you about FASCAM stating that I had not bought any and that we should keep it out of the game since it is a game breaker and a sore point for all wargamers: You responded by buying FASCAM and not writing me that you had done so until the game was 'On'.

Should I continue?

Ok I'll skip the remainder and point out that you were insistent that we play for points 'laddr points'. I am ok with ladder points at any time win-loss ratio means nothing to me .. then you became insistent that we only play for a draw .. now you want to regulate the manner in which the game runs and how I should use my units as well.
?

I recommend you post in the forum for Steel Panthers and get other laises opinions. [Consult Double Deuce before hand so that he can ok the contents of any further threading as he would prefer the forum remain civil - I can't disagree. I know from past experience he wants the members to PM each other instead however I think you would gain from the experience. Lastly, don't forget to ask the aliases what they think of your opens to closes ratio is. I can say that mine is 100% 1 to 1 I even told you how to avoid having a mismatch should the game crash on you.]

I will post a decisive win if you unilaterally can the game.

Danstudentvcc
Danstudentvcc

I'm not saying that I was dealt with in a demeaning manner, but I guess we would have talked about this before the game as we were setting up as I disscussed everything about what was pertinent to the scenairo. To me it just seems very gamey. You are correct that I bought 31 attack choppers, that was a mistake on my part. I did not realize this but looking at the game I did purchase 31. Now I also emailed you that you could purchase attack transport helios from another country if you realy wanted. some of the other countries and the one country. I also mentioned to you might want to try was Russia for the Attack transport helios. and you declined! I did Also mention to you you could Arm your teansport helios if you wished. The other matter was the Adats, Now we were supposed to be playing Germany vs the US but you sked me if you could purchase them, I'm prety sure there from Canada! As far as Fascam goes We certainly had a disscussion on it and I let you know I was purchasing it as I said before I disscused what I thought was all the pertinent deatails with you, we both had the option of buying it. I also wanted to mention that you spent 1,960 points more than we agreed! So I guess you went to the same math class I did. That is more than one attack helio! As far as saving the game again I let you know how many opens and closes I had done and the reason I was doing it, you know my computer crashes in fact it crashed on me while I was talking to you over the phone showing me somthing about the game. and that I was doing my best with it. As far as posting a win I will continue to fight on. I guess I just thought a little common sense was in order. I also I got a little over zealous about the matter So let's just leave this matter behind us and move on. I would like to call this a dead matter and let's just play I will try not to take things so serious the next time. Sincerly Dan

[Double Deuce]

I did Also mention to you you could Arm your transport helios if you wished. Don't tell me you both agreed to mess with units in the editor before you started the battle.... Thats just asking for trouble. :o

[Dan]

Yeah your right it is kind shaky ground. the only thing I did was add about 100 extra infantry to my whole force of over 130,000 points and of course I let Gus know exactly how many guys I was taking.

[Dan]

I was really hoping this was going to be one of the funnest battles I had ever played in SPMBT! I have rethought my position about playing and I have decide not to continue with this game for the following reasons. I would first like to say: I like you Gus but I don't like the tactics that were used to try to discredit me and attack me publicly. To me it was a vain attempt to camoflage the real issue of weather or not CH-53's should be allowed to carry heavy AFS but instead I was attacked personally as a sneak and a cheat. The issues in question that I was accused of were discussed and some of them at length with you with the exception of me buying an extra Attack transport helio. I did that by accident and have already
appologized publicly for it. The issue about opens and closes you know fair well why I did it in fact you tried to help me solve the problem with my computer and the program on more than occaision even coming to my home and helping me reinstall SPMBT and SPWW2 and figuring out the problem. I'm not going to repeat and defend myself anymore on these topics. I just wish the issue would have been disscused at the beginning of the scenairio instead of going in the direcion that it has gone. I have also started a thread in the Operational Art of War on what the lift capabiliteis are on a CH-53.

I also appeal to Double Duece on not allowing a major victory as Gus has threatend to do if I back out of this game. Under the circumstances I don't feel this would be fair and I have desroyed more points than him. Sincerly, Dan :salute:

[Double Deuce]

OK guys, I'm closing this thread. We'll continue this discussion via email/PM's. I'll be reading through all relevant posts in depth and will be sending an email as soon as time permits. Hopefully by the end of the day tomorrow (Sunday).