View Full Version : Desert Armor PBEM - Syrian Perspective
Choowee and I have started a new PBEM game using the Desert Armor scenario I recently created. Choowee chose to play the Israeli's meaning I would play the Syrians. I plan on using this thread to provide a running play-by-play of the game (at least from my perspective). I will also keep a running list of questions/issues that develop during play so that they can be sent to Scott.
Before beginning, I need to provide a disclaimer. This scenario has not been play-tested due to the AI's inability to handle the associated victory conditions. Consequently, this game could be extremely one-sided and short lived. I plan to further tune/tweak the scenario based on this first experience. Please feel free to post any questions regarding game mechanics or my actions that you have. I should warn everyone, that I am not a terribly skilled tactician, so at the very least, this thread should provide some comic relief to everyone...
Operational Plan:
At my disposal, I have a T-72 tank battalion and mechanized infantry platoon (equipped with BTR-60s). As the Israelis have superior equipment and training, the last thing I want to see occur is a long range tank duel in the open desert. Choowee's Merkavas would make short work of the old soviet equipment. In order to overcome the Israeli advantages, I need to get my forces in close and overwhelm him with sheer numbers. In other words, a knife fight!
To that end, I plan on implementing the following strategy. A & B armor companies, will advance Southeast between the ridgeline and the river towards the Israeli town. This approach should help shield the units from direct line of sight and secure their right flank. If the Israeli's attempt to capture the "neutral" victory hex location I might be able to engage them on their flanks. C company, will guard the town and act as a mobile reserve.
I plan on utilizing the amphibious capabilities on the BTR-60s to cross the ridgeline and river in the north and approach the town from the western side of the ridgeline. This should shield the infantry from an direct Israeli observation until they are within a few hundred yards of the town. At that point, they will dismount and assault the town.
As I see it, the most significant risk in this plan is that the armor companies could become trapped between the ridgeline and the river. With limited cover and little room to maneuver, they could die quickly. A secondary risk is that the armor will not be able to directly support the Mech platoon due to it's inability to cross the river running along the ridgeline.
I just completed my orders for Turn 1 and sent the file back to Choowee. Let's see how this progress...
Outstanding Questions/Issues for Scott:
According to the unit data viewer, the T-72 tank can be made amphibious in roughly 20 minutes. Is this capability modeled in the game? If so, how would a player make use of the feature? Is it as simple as moving adjacent to the river/stream hex, waiting 20 minutes and then crossing?
While playing turn 1, I noticed something peculiar with the Syrian OOB. A Syrian mechanized Infantry squad is composed of the following teams; 1 AT/RPG team, 1 LMG team, and 6 Terrorists... That doesn't seem correct. Is this a coding issue within the OOB?
HercMighty
23 Mar 05, 11:28
I am curious as to your SOP settings and Reaction orders settings (if used). Have you contemplated these in your plan or left them to defaults?
Alkiviadis
23 Mar 05, 12:17
I'd love to give this a try but need a map
HercMighty
23 Mar 05, 13:27
I'd love to give this a try but need a map
The maps are available here:
http://www.hpssims.com/Pages/updates/up_POA2/Updates_POA2.html
You also need:
19 Mar 04
6.4 MB
POA-2 Custom Symbol Set 1 (http://www.hpssims.com/Pages/updates/up_POA2/Symbol%20Sets/POA2%20Custom%20Symbol%20Set%201%20By%20Don%20Madd ox.exe) (by Don Maddox)
Then download Mikes scenario and you will be good to go.
Regards
I am curious as to your SOP settings and Reaction orders settings (if used). Have you contemplated these in your plan or left them to defaults?
Currently the units have their respective default values for SOP and Reaction orders. I plan on "tweaking" the settings over the next turn or two, while the units move to their staging areas.
I will make sure to post any setting changes I make and my reasoning.
Thanks,
Mike
I'd love to give this a try but need a map
Just a quick word of warning. The AI in this scenario can not properly handle the victory conditions I set. Consequently, it is only suitable in a two-player mode.
Thanks,
Mike
Chowee and I have just completed Turn 3. As of yet, no significant events have occurred. My units are still moving to their respective jump-off points. I have not yet spotted any Israeli units.
I have, however, hit my first operational problem. In reviewing the movement orders for my units, I have discovered that it is going to take considerably longer than I had anticipated for my units to cross the various rivers. See the Movement_Problem.jpg file attached below. It appears that my mech platoon will not cross the northern river for another 8 - 10 minutes and the armor of C company will not cross the southern river for another 6 - 7 minutes. Consequently, I will need to slow A & B companies down or they will pull too far ahead and risk being cut off.
In an earlier thread Herc asked about the SOP and Reaction Orders I have set for the various units. I have attached screen prints of the reaction orders below. As I have never used SOP or Reaction orders before, it will be interesting to see how these work.
In general, my Mech platoon will move to cover and unload it's troops when fire is received. My two armor assault companies (A & B) will always advance to cover under any fire. Since C company's objective is to act as a mobile reserve and hold the Israeli’s attention, I want them to back off of any engagement and begin a cat and mouse game
Questions/Issues:
My T-72s are equipped with 8 smoke grenades. Do I have the ability to control their use or is that strictly under AI control? Ideally, I would have liked to have a "Pop smoke" option added to the Reaction Orders screen (much like TacOps).
Questions/Issues:
My T-72s are equipped with 8 smoke grenades. Do I have the ability to control their use or is that strictly under AI control? Ideally, I would have liked to have a "Pop smoke" option added to the Reaction Orders screen (much like TacOps).
Good question. I have wondered the same thing. I have found no way to fire the smoke grenades on vehicle. I have assumed that they would do that themselves. As of yet, I have not seen it happen. Needs to be added to the list to work on. I too would like to see it addressed in teh Reaction Orders too.
I will forward the smoke grenade question to Scott later today. Will let everyone know what I hear back from him.
Thanks,
Mike
HercMighty
24 Mar 05, 10:04
I have, however, hit my first operational problem. In reviewing the movement orders for my units, I have discovered that it is going to take considerably longer than I had anticipated for my units to cross the various rivers. See the Movement_Problem.jpg file attached below. It appears that my mech platoon will not cross the northern river for another 8 - 10 minutes and the armor of C company will not cross the southern river for another 6 - 7 minutes. Consequently, I will need to slow A & B companies down or they will pull too far ahead and risk being cut off.
In general, my Mech platoon will move to cover and unload it's troops when fire is received.
Mike,
I have never really paid attention before but how are you determining how long it will take a unit to move to a certain location? Is this displayed somewhere? (Actually now that I think about it it is on the movement tab isn't it)
The reaction orders and in regards to unloading troops is also something I have emailed Scott on. As it is now you have no control on when the troops will unload. Scott and them agreed we should have a choice: either unload and then retreat the vehicles, or retreat and then unload. As it stands now I think the vehicles retreat and then unload. I do not know if composite units right now limits this, maybe with composite units on or off we can effect this.
Regards
I am pretty sure I have seen tanks lay smoke when under attack from other tanks. I'll go back and look tonight.
Mike,
I have never really paid attention before but how are you determining how long it will take a unit to move to a certain location? Is this displayed somewhere? (Actually now that I think about it it is on the movement tab isn't it)
You can view a unit's estimated travel time in the fully expanded view of the Movement Orders window. On the left hand side of the window, just above the blue "Movement Orders" display is the estimated travel time.
The reaction orders and in regards to unloading troops is also something I have emailed Scott on. As it is now you have no control on when the troops will unload. Scott and them agreed we should have a choice: either unload and then retreat the vehicles, or retreat and then unload. As it stands now I think the vehicles retreat and then unload. I do not know if composite units right now limits this, maybe with composite units on or off we can effect this.
I agree that it would be nice to have more granular control of the reaction orders. My primary concern with the mech platoon is having them unload as soon as they receive fire. I want to minimize the risk of losing the squad along with the vehicle.
Thanks,
Mike
Choowee and I just completed turn 4 and first blood has been drawn!
Two of my tank companies caught several Israeli units silhouetted along a ridgeline. End result, three KIA Israeli units and no Syrian losses. A screen shot has been attached below which shows the result of this exchange.
I did notice something odd in the combat display. When each Israeli unit was hit, the combat display would indicate that an "Unknown unit" was hit and destroyed. It would then list that "wreckage exists" and then show that 9 casualties were also incurred. If I don't know what type of unit I just killed, how can I know that I also caused 9 casualties? Consequently, I now know that I have killed three APCs instead of tanks.
I have however, lost two T-72s due to mobility damage while moving over the rough desert terrain. These tanks are still functional but immobile and hence will not play a significant role for the remainder of the game.
The game is starting to get interesting now...
Thanks,
Mike
Choowee and I just completed Turn 6. Since the first volley a couple of turns ago, no additional action or sightings have occurred.
I have noticed what appear to be dust trails forming along the main East-West road. It appears that the Israeli tanks may be making a dash for the central victory hex. C company is still having trouble crossing the river further to the east and will not be in their blocking positions for several more minutes. Consequently, they will not be able to halt the enemy armor. Since I need to hold A & B armor companies while the Mech platoon crosses the river to the north, I will swing the armor companies around to the south and take up ambush positions. With any luck, I can catch the Israeli's looking east, while I hit them from the north.
I have attached a screen shot outlining the unit dispositions, the dust trails and my operational plan.
Looks like the next couple of turns could become quite interesting...
Thanks,
Mike
Contact has been made! Unfortunately, my grandiose plan almost immediately fell apart. :eek:
While I had spotted some dust clouds along the east-west road, the Israeli's had actually spotted my two armor companies moving along the ridgeline. It seems that the Merkava's thermal imagers do provide the unit a distinct sighting advantage, even in the daylight.
As you can imagine the following exchange was extremely one sided. The Israeli training and equipment advantage allowed their armor to fire almost two full volleys before, my T-72s were able to identify the units and return fire. The result, 5 burning T-72s and as best I can tell, no Israeli losses :mad:
The only good news that came from this turn was that most of my C company was able to make it across the river further to the east and is now racing westward.
My hope is that I can continue to swing A & B companies to the south while C company moves in from the east. Maybe, I can catch their tanks in a crossfire and score some kills.
Thanks,
Mike
We just completed Turn 9 and the battlefield is strewn with burning wrecks. Unfortunately, the vast majority of those wrecks have strong resemblence to T-72s :mad:
My units have recovered from their initial surprise and have begun to return fire. While they are managing a respectible number of hits, they are having trouble penetrating the Merkava's armor.
In just under 10 minutes of game time, I have lost nearly 2 companies of armor (between KIA and mobility damage). As best as I can tell, the Israelis have lost a mech platoon and maybe two platoons of armor.
Attached below are a couple of screen shots. One shows the current disposition of the units and my attempt at a plan :cheeky: . The other shows the battlefield wreckage.
Thanks,
Mike
Alkiviadis
01 Apr 05, 10:48
I've followed all instructions re: the map & this is what I get> Solution(s)?
I've followed all instructions re: the map & this is what I get> Solution(s)?
While colorful, that map certainly doesn't look very playable :)
I haven't seen this problem before, but my first guess would be that the Custom symbol set is either not installed or the associated files are not in the correct directories.
In addition to the Golan map, did you download and install the Custom Symbol Set created by Don Maddox? If so, verify that files associated with this are installed in the correct directories. I believe there is a readme included in the zip which outlines the file/directory relationships.
Thanks,
Mike
Mike, what ammo are the 72's using? When I play CIS vs. Isreal or US, the 125mm fire an awful lot of HEFRAG at M1 and the like. I think it may be because they have little hope of hitting or killing with AP.
Mike, what ammo are the 72's using? When I play CIS vs. Isreal or US, the 125mm fire an awful lot of HEFRAG at M1 and the like. I think it may be because they have little hope of hitting or killing with AP.
I have have been fairly impressed with the AI's selection of ammo. Over long distance, it will normally choose to fire Songster ATGMs. Over medium to short range, it will mostly fire AP sabot rounds.
Granted, none of this "smart selection" is doing me any good in the current game, but it is nice to see :laugh:
Thanks,
Mike
Alkiviadis
01 Apr 05, 19:37
While colorful, that map certainly doesn't look very playable :)
I haven't seen this problem before, but my first guess would be that the Custom symbol set is either not installed or the associated files are not in the correct directories.
In addition to the Golan map, did you download and install the Custom Symbol Set created by Don Maddox? If so, verify that files associated with this are installed in the correct directories. I believe there is a readme included in the zip which outlines the file/directory relationships.
Thanks,
Mike
Yes I followed all the instructions re: the original posting. Added Map, added custom symbal set as per instructions. Perhaps you could elaborate or post a jpeg of your file structure for me if it's not too much trouble. Thanks.
Yes I followed all the instructions re: the original posting. Added Map, added custom symbal set as per instructions. Perhaps you could elaborate or post a jpeg of your file structure for me if it's not too much trouble. Thanks.
Here are the directory paths for the necessary files. Let me know if that doesn't solve your problems.
Thanks,
Mike
Alkiviadis
02 Apr 05, 11:00
Thank you Sir. As you can see a big improvement
Thank you Sir. As you can see a big improvement
Glad that worked for you. When you have time, please post your thoughts on the scenario. Being that it is new, I have now doubt that it will take some additional tweaking before it is evenly balanced and fun...
Thanks,
Mike
Choowee and I just completed Turn 11 and the battle is turning into a knock-down, drag-out, slugfest :devil: Both side's armored units have collided around the middle victory hex and are battling fiercely.
Over the last few minutes, my T-72s have scored more hits/kills than Choowee's Merkavas which makes the battle all that much more exciting. I have lost nearly two companies worth of armor in the last 10 minutes. :mad: Counting the kills I have scored in the last few minutes, I believe Choowee has lost nearly a company of armor. That, in addition to the loss of his mech platoon earlier in the game means I might still have a chance :laugh:
With the remnents of A & B companies to the north and C company to the East, I have the remaining Israeli Merkavas in a cross-fire. Unfortunately, I'm still having a heck of time penetrating their armor. On average, only 1 out of 8 hits score a kill...
My one last true advangtage is my mech platoon in the north. The first squad is across the river with the second two squads following in the next few minutes. With the Israeli armor pinned down around the central victory hex and his mech platoon a mass of burning wrecks, I might be able to rush these down and capture his victory hex / city.
Only time will tell...
MikeSinn - Thanks for the play by play - Nice to see how the game is playing (progressing) -
I just might reinstall POA2!! (Though I just read there is talk of POA3??) -
Can I ask for you to clarify - are custom made scenario's now a viable option?
Thanks
I think talk of POA3 is just that "talk". I would not hold your breath for POA3. I don't think Scott will do anything unit POA2 is finished.
MikeSinn - Thanks for the play by play - Nice to see how the game is playing (progressing) -
I just might reinstall POA2!! (Though I just read there is talk of POA3??) -
Can I ask for you to clarify - are custom made scenario's now a viable option?
Thanks
In my opinion, the scenario editor is now a stable and viable tool. I have not encountered any significant errors or crashes with the scenario editor in the last few builds.
I would definitely suggest you give POA2 another try, especially if you haven't looked at the game in the last few months. I think you will be pleasantly surprised.
Thanks,
Mike
Sorry for the lack of updates over the last week or so. "Real Life" and it's responsibilities therein, got the better of me for a while... Choowee and I just completed Turn 18 and I believe it is safe to say that the end is near.
In the last few turns, I have spotted two more Merkava platoons along the ridgeline to the west. From their position, they can spot and engage just about anywhere across the battlefield. I have already lost a BTR and a couple of T-72s to those units.
The most significant problem I currently have to deal with is surprisingly not those Merkavas, but a serious lack of ammunition. The majority of my tanks are now out of sabot rounds. So while they are firing and hitting his units, the heat rounds are simply bouncing off his armor.
The second significant problem I face is a lack of mobility for several of my key units. My Mech platoon in the north is still trying to cross the stream. Two of the three BTRs appear to be stuck. According to the the Movement Tab in the unit display window, each unit should only take 2 - 3 minutes to complete their movement. This estimate however has not changed in the last ten turns. I have the same problem with a platoon of armor refusing to cross the river further to the east. Once our game concludes, I plan to forward a series of saved game files to Scott and see if he can explain why these units appear to be stuck.
Attached below is a screen shot of the current battlefield.
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