Mini-carriers and JSF

[Ivan Rapkinov]

this is somewhat related to my Weapons of War post, but was looking to game it out in a fashion...

the issue is the RAN/RAAF/ADF are considering the purchase of SVTOL version JSFs to be placed aboard the new Amphib ships the RAN is getting (looks to be either the French Mistral class or the Spanish one - which has side facing ski jumps iirc)

now being a complete seaborne aircraft neophyte, what numbers would be appropriate per ship? (estimated size is similar to a Wasp LHD) - I'ver heard 8 being bandied about, but I'm assuming that's without a helo contingent, `and with some being stored above deck.

and what would be a suitable sized grouping for a Mini carrier based task force if I was such inclined as to design the scn?

cheers for any info.

[MikMyk]

Interesting that one of the UK Invicibles might be up for sale as well huh? No basis of fact here but the RN is sizing down and they are relatively young by naval standards.

Assume by the time this boat comes into existance expect some new DDG's to be in service as well. So one or two of those as escort plus 2-4 FFG's (Anzac or Adelaide) is my guess.

Incorporated Aviation is anybody's guess.

[Ivan Rapkinov]

Mike: the Invincibles are out, mainly due to the fact that we don't have the numbers to man them.

I was under the impression that the AADs would be a long time coming (given as a hull is yet to be chosen...), but their inclusion makes sense.

what about subs? would the group have a Collins for escort or two?

[MikMyk]

Sure. Although in most cases you wouldn't see them tooling around with the TF due to speed and endurance. Instead they meet the group in their area of operations and operate along with them. So not really escorts but would have some screening duties once they got where they are going.

[VCDH]

Unless the RAN takes the Invincible for sale then the only other otpion is a new build boat. Smallish carriers with VSTOL detachments are usually pretty cheap to run and with todays technology can be manned with low numbers.

If the Invincibles are too manpower intensive, then that means the Wasps are out as well. That leaves either the Spanish Austrias (sp?) class or the new Andrea Doria class for Italy. Both run a detachment of Harriers/JSFs with alot of helicopters. But like the RN carriers that space can be easily converted over to VSTOL aircraft.

And that means a new boat, with the consequently more expensive price tag.

Later
D

Dale Hillier
AGSI RD&T
Harpoint Admin

http://www3.nf.sympatico.ca/daleh/avatars/vcdh.jpg

[Ivan Rapkinov]

well the primary mission is to be an expeditionary amphib helo-carrier, with the ability to support up to a battalion of troops.

They're looking at the possibility of basing JSFs off them, but that's about it. I don't think the VSTOL capability will be a concern in the decision process.

the Amphibs are a definite buy, the VSTOL JSFs not so.

[Mick]

What about those little fast cat carrier heard anything more about them?

[The Doctor]

The Wasp LHDs usually carry 6 AV-8Bs. That can be increased if some helos are removed. The LHA(R) class, under design, will be a little larger (50,000 ton displacement, 920 feet long), almost as big as the old Midway Class CVs. The USN website doesn't say what the standard JSF contingent will be; just that the mix will be adjusted to the mission.

8 JSFs sounds like a pretty good number for a current Helo/VSTOL carrier.
http://www.chinfo.navy.mil/navpalib/factfile/ships/ship-lha.html

[danrh]

The program focus is not an aircraft carrier, its an amphib, either the Spanish Bazan design or a modified (enlarged) French Mistral. The speculation though is that given the proven ability of such vessels to operate STOVL aircraft and Australia's involvment in the JSF program that it might be prudent to ensure that whichever design is chosen is capable of operating a small number of the F-35B model in case a future Government wants to take this option.