View Full Version : Newbie with Questions/8 player scenario
Hi guys (and any ladies out there),
I'm brand new, just registered for the TOAW:COW ladder today, as well as the forums.
Got a couple quick questions.
How long do games normally run, say 10, 25, or 40+ turn games? Because of work and RL (not familiar with all your abbrieviations [see below], but that is "Real Life") I can't really see getting through more than a turn, maybe two a day. Is that normal or low? I can't see everyone just sitting by their e-mail waiting for the new turn to come through. Maybe I'm wrong, but I expect, that unlike some other online/real-time games I've played, most of you have real jobs and lives, and aren't sitting home all day.
And I've seen the abbrieviation/acronym 'EA' used a couple times when paging through the forums. What does it mean?
I'm sure that in the near future I'll have many more questions, and hopefully you won't mind me asking them.
I'd ask for a small game, but I'm going away this weekend and the middle of next week I'm in Cancun for my brother's wedding, and I don't want to keep anyone waiting for me, so hopefully maybe when I get back someone will want to kick my arse then.
Any way until then, thanks.
Decon :D
Originally posted by DeconMan
Hi guys (and any ladies out there),
I'm brand new, just registered for the TOAW:COW ladder today, as well as the forums.
Got a couple quick questions.
How long do games normally run, say 10, 25, or 40+ turn games? Because of work and RL (not familiar with all your abbrieviations [see below], but that is "Real Life") I can't really see getting through more than a turn, maybe two a day. Is that normal or low? I can't see everyone just sitting by their e-mail waiting for the new turn to come through. Maybe I'm wrong, but I expect, that unlike some other online/real-time games I've played, most of you have real jobs and lives, and aren't sitting home all day.
Most people do a turn or two a day.
Some more some less...
And I've seen the abbrieviation/acronym 'EA' used a couple times when paging through the forums. What does it mean?
Europe Aflame. Its a HUGE scenario which covers the entire European/African theater for all of WW2.
Originally posted by DeconMan
Hi guys (and any ladies out there),
I'm brand new, just registered for the TOAW:COW ladder today, as well as the forums.
Welcome aboard!
Got a couple quick questions.
How long do games normally run, say 10, 25, or 40+ turn games? Because of work and RL (not familiar with all your abbrieviations [see below], but that is "Real Life") I can't really see getting through more than a turn, maybe two a day. Is that normal or low?
Normal to good. 1 a day is probably average, anything beyond that is a good pace.
I can't see everyone just sitting by their e-mail waiting for the new turn to come through. Maybe I'm wrong, but I expect, that unlike some other online/real-time games I've played, most of you have real jobs and lives, and aren't sitting home all day.
Most of us. ;)
And I've seen the abbrieviation/acronym 'EA' used a couple times when paging through the forums. What does it mean?
As mentioned, Europe Aflame. Now there's a killer scenario! Work your way up to that and give it a try; you owe it to yourself!
I'm sure that in the near future I'll have many more questions, and hopefully you won't mind me asking them.
That's what this place is all about, and also why most of us are now addicted to it! :D You've truly joined a 'community', in the grandest sense of the word!
I'd ask for a small game, but I'm going away this weekend and the middle of next week I'm in Cancun for my brother's wedding, and I don't want to keep anyone waiting for me, so hopefully maybe when I get back someone will want to kick my arse then.
Count on it! I'm sure you won't have too much difficulty constantly finding people to game various scenarios with. The ladder here is quite active.
Again, welcome aboard!
One thing that seem to make just doing a turn a day very manageable is playing people from different time zones. There seem to be a lot of players from different parts of the world so it works out. You send a turn off to an opponent in Europe while he is sleeping. While you are at work he plays it and sends it back before you get home. It works like a charm and neither of you is left waiting for the turn to come in the mail. Also, I have noticed that the people who are really addicted have enough games going so that if you miss a day here and there because of real life, they generally don't get bent out of shape about it.
viridomaros
08 May 03, 12:42
hi deconman i'm also a newbie player like you i have already played a few games some against veteran and i would like to play against someone who has aproximately the same level than me
you can choose ever scenario you like and also the force you want
i can grant you at least one turn a day ( usually i can play until 4 times in a day depending when you're sending the mails
i'm living in Belgium and i'm connected from 21h to 2h so i think it's 20h in the USA i think it's good time for you well just answer me when you can
bye :cheeky: :cheeky:
Opponents with your skill level are already lining up! :D
Keep us updated on how your games progress, we can never get enough AARs!
Hooah! Will do.
Almost, note I said almost, wish I wasn't doing this bachelor party this weekend and Cancun next week and could start a game now. :cheeky:
Got another question for y'all. I can't seem to find my manual (the result of the on again off again nature of my previous interest in TOAW :rolleyes: ). I've read the electronic help pages, but I was wondering whether there are electrons floating around for the actual manual, there's a lot more info in that.
Thanks for the welcom
Decon :thumup:
Since you're new here, I'll preempt a few questions you're sure to ask within the next few days.
What's with the banana obsession?
Honestly? I've been here for something like 280 posts now and I still no have clue whatsoever. I suspect its something of a fruit fetish, but don't hold me to that as I'm still trying to figure it out.
Isn't the name Siberian HEAT a contradiction?
Maybe. It would make sense to say it is, but what if he runs a furnace service or something? A furnace guy from Siberia has to be good at what he does.
In TOAW, how does...?
Talk to JAMiAM.
1st use small scenarios as Arracourt, then if you are US, find USINVADED and try to avoid US destruction by EU army leaded By French and German :D.
Stop Joking, what period of time did you like.
Have you a specific knowledge on some armies ( It couldl help you in some games).
If you want to find scenarios you can get some here and there is an other Web with plenty of them http://www/wargamer.com
Read a lot, drink plenty of beer :drink: no Coke it is very bad for Stomach LOL
and fight men fight
Concerning Bananas :banana: refuse to buy US one as the best are EU ones :D
Der Wanderer
What's with the banana obsession?
Honestly? I've been here for something like 280 posts now and I still no have clue whatsoever. I suspect its something of a fruit fetish, but don't hold me to that as I'm still trying to figure it out.
Mike, I'm not sure I want to ask, because I'm afraid they might tell. And as Powell once said, 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell.'
Isn't the name Siberian HEAT a contradiction?
Maybe. It would make sense to say it is, but what if he runs a furnace service or something? A furnace guy from Siberia has to be good at what he does.
I just assumed that SiberianHEAT was a more concise way of saying:
any of a breed of medium-sized thick-coated compact dogs that were developed in Siberia for use as sled dogs and that have erect ears and a bushy tail a regularly recurrent state of sexual excitability during which the female of most mammals will accept the male and is capable of conceiving
Stop Joking, what period of time did you like.
Have you a specific knowledge on some armies ( It couldl help you in some games).
I guess, I'm more a World War II fan. But I've tried some of the other periods, if I've felt comfortable with the scenario complexity. As many of my ex-girlfriends (as well as current ones - just don't tell my wife :D ), would tell you, I'll try almost anything once.
Decon :bounce:
If you look at the file that comes with the 1.04 patch which is a stand alone help file, I think it pretty much represents an updated version of the manual. It does not have all of the pretty pictures and graphics, but I think it has all of the text through ACOW version1.04. Given that some of the info fro the original manual has been superceded I find this very helpful.
Hey Deconman, I like your signature saying.
:D
Damn, I knew someone was going to have that signature already, I just love the movie. Guess its back to the drawing board and time to look for a new one.
Maybe I'll go with something by Baghdad Bob, aka the Joe Izuzu of Bahdad, aka Mohammed Saeed al-Sahaf, the Iraqi Information Minister.
:p :p :p :p
ER_Chaser
09 May 03, 13:15
Originally posted by DeconMan
Hi guys (and any ladies out there),
I'm brand new, just registered for the TOAW:COW ladder today, as well as the forums.
Got a couple quick questions.
How long do games normally run, say 10, 25, or 40+ turn games?
Decon :D
I am sure you get answers for all the other question by now ... but as for how long a 40 turn game could possibly go? Give you an idea: the game of Barbarossa 41 (48 turns) between me and Jamiam, had been undergoing for over 2 years now, and we are still only at turn 21. :D ..... (of course, almost exclusively my fault :D )
Hope this does not scare you away from ..... the game, the club... or me ? :hurt: :dead: :devious: :love:
welcome here :)
Bob Cross
12 May 03, 15:11
To add one more data point, Jeremy McDonald and I have just completed 40 turns of Campaign for North Africa. We started 11/14/02, so that's six months, exactly.
Only 202 turns to go. If we can maintain 80 turns per year that will take another 2.5 years.
:surprise: :nuts: :surprise: :OHNO: :drink: :drink: :drink: :drink:
Another question. How exactly is the helicopter mobility of an airborne unit figured out?
I.E. I fly a group forward and drop them off. The next turn is half a day later and they are not allowed to reboard a hilo. The next turn they can board and I fly them further into enemy area. Now for the next four turns they have not been able to board a hilo.
Does it have to do with the distance between the airborne units and the hilo units? Is it some sort of proficiency test that determines it? Is it the proficiency of the airborne unit or the transport unit?
What should I be looking for to figure out when I will be able to board the airborne troops again? What can I do to maximize movement by hilo?
Yeah, I know it's a lot of questions. Thanks for any advise. I had some answers to this previously, but the more I know the more I get deeper into the game, which creates more questions.:confused:
General Staff
12 May 03, 16:42
Originally posted by ER_Chaser
...the game of Barbarossa 41 (48 turns) between me and Jamiam, had been undergoing for over 2 years now, and we are still only at turn 21....You're still playing this? Maybe I should have kept going. :cheeky:
I gave up at turn 16 after watching my factories churning out unit after unit as replacements with not a horse between them (A truck? You want a truck? Take him outside and shoot him!). It's just stunningly unrealistic.
Originally posted by ER_Chaser
I am sure you get answers for all the other question by now ... but as for how long a 40 turn game could possibly go? Give you an idea: the game of Barbarossa 41 (48 turns) between me and Jamiam, had been undergoing for over 2 years now, and we are still only at turn 21. :D ..... (of course, almost exclusively my fault :D )
Hope this does not scare you away from ..... the game, the club... or me ? :hurt: :dead: :devious: :love:
welcome here :)
Is this the barbarossa scenario that came with the original TOAW I?
ER_Chaser
12 May 03, 18:08
For Mad Cow: ... I am not sure. I do not have TOAW I... but this is from the CD of ACOW,.. if I am right with my memory, designer was Eric Larson or some1 like that..
For General Staff: ... I think I cheated at the beginning by disbanding a lot of my units :D ... and thus left better off at this stage.... Well, I am not sure if this is exactly due to the disbanding strategy ---- James may tell more properly as he played this one much more than I did :)
Originally posted by ER_Chaser
For Mad Cow: ... I am not sure. I do not have TOAW I... but this is from the CD of ACOW,.. if I am right with my memory, designer was Eric Larson or some1 like that..
For General Staff: ... I think I cheated at the beginning by disbanding a lot of my units :D ... and thus left better off at this stage.... Well, I am not sure if this is exactly due to the disbanding strategy ---- James may tell more properly as he played this one much more than I did :)
I am pretty sure its the same one.
Is the map on its head?
ER_Chaser
13 May 03, 11:09
Originally posted by Mad Cow
I am pretty sure its the same one.
Is the map on its head?
"the map on its head"? ... sorry, what is that?
I just had potentially really stupid, yet possibly entertaining idea.
Would anyone find any interest in doing a "chain" PBEM. It would take four people for a short scenorio, but would be more fun with 8-10 in a moderate scenario.
By "chain" I mean you do a turn, then pass the game to someone, who then passes it not back to you but to someone else. It would come back to you at about turn four or five.
I know it has no practicallity in doing any tactical or strategic planning. It may be entertaining to see what you can do with what you are given in the middle of a campaign. We could do it so that you get the turn blind, or could cc everyone on every turn so they could see replays and follow the progression.
I know, it's "out there." :nuts:
Originally posted by ER_Chaser
"the map on its head"? ... sorry, what is that?
If I remember correctly (it's been a while since I have looked at it) but on the map, west is where south normally would be (bottomof the screen) and east is where north usually is (at the top of the screen.)
Originally posted by cbc72
I just had potentially really stupid, yet possibly entertaining idea.
Would anyone find any interest in doing a "chain" PBEM. It would take four people for a short scenorio, but would be more fun with 8-10 in a moderate scenario.
By "chain" I mean you do a turn, then pass the game to someone, who then passes it not back to you but to someone else. It would come back to you at about turn four or five.
I know it has no practicallity in doing any tactical or strategic planning. It may be entertaining to see what you can do with what you are given in the middle of a campaign. We could do it so that you get the turn blind, or could cc everyone on every turn so they could see replays and follow the progression.
I know, it's "out there." :nuts:
Many years ago I was part of a huge multi-player game of Brian Topp's barbarossa scenario. Differnt players were assaigned different armies for each side and one person on each side was overall commander. He would issue orders and the other people were responsible for making the moves and issuing combat orders.
It didn't work to well with so many people and the game never finished, but it was an interesting idea.
ER_Chaser
13 May 03, 13:50
Originally posted by Mad Cow
If I remember correctly (it's been a while since I have looked at it) but on the map, west is where south normally would be (bottomof the screen) and east is where north usually is (at the top of the screen.)
No, it is normal. North up.
We did something oddball like this with a chess game once... My brother, best friend and I were playing a hotseat game of Heroes 3. We were drinking alot of beer, and to pass the time, Doug and I setup a chess game while my little bro was doing his turn. Well, after Trent was done, Doug went to do his turn, and Trent took over Doug's side in chess. As it was my turn next Doug had to take over my side. What made it interesting was that I had spent about 15 moves lining up some interesting BS, and when I was finishing my Heroes turn, I came back just in time to get butchered by it, as I was now playing the other side... lol.
As crazy as that was, I have to say that it was quite enjoyable! For awhile there, we had more fun with the chess game than with H3!
Siberian HEAT
13 May 03, 14:04
Originally posted by cbc72
I just had potentially really stupid, yet possibly entertaining idea.
Would anyone find any interest in doing a "chain" PBEM. It would take four people for a short scenorio, but would be more fun with 8-10 in a moderate scenario.
By "chain" I mean you do a turn, then pass the game to someone, who then passes it not back to you but to someone else. It would come back to you at about turn four or five.
I know it has no practicallity in doing any tactical or strategic planning. It may be entertaining to see what you can do with what you are given in the middle of a campaign. We could do it so that you get the turn blind, or could cc everyone on every turn so they could see replays and follow the progression.
I know, it's "out there." :nuts:
LOL, a stupid idea? I guess you and I think alike then...because I have suggested this in the past too. Last try was for DNO due to it's size...but only a few were interested. I am interested if you can scrape together some others!
I'm willing to get involved. Why don't we play a WWII or WWIII game, and people can take nations/formations, etc? That could be a blast! I have alot of time on my hands now that the wife has started her new job, so could help to organize a project like this if there was interest.
As long as you don't expect a blistering turn around, I'd be interested in giving this a go.
I think this could be a pretty good go, as long as it's with a larger sceanrio.
Turns divided into tactical rounds then?
Don't get me wrong, this sounds interesting, but if you're playing a 200 turn scenario that has to be additionally broken down into 3-4 "turns" each (for each combat phase), I'm not sure you'd be finished before one of the participants dies of old age...
So, there is interest from
Mantis
Wolf
Siberian HEAT
tigersqn
I don't know if breaking it down by tactical round would work, as the way I play I tend to end the turn after one round often. I was thinking more like the chess game was described. Just take one normal turn and pass the file on. Maybe when you get the file back about four turns later you are still commanding the same side, maybe not.
Without communicating strategy it could make for some unusual tactics and scenario developments. I would look to one of the more experienced members to pick an appropriate scenario.
I'll give this until tomorrow evening (US) to let people show interest, then start the first turn and forward it on.
Thanks for your interest in this.
ER_Chaser
13 May 03, 15:58
the most entertaining thing from this could be:
HEAT dug in his southern front inf. corps. back two hexes away from the enemy. For in depth defense, that was. But no strategy communication.
Then passed to Mantis, then Shane thought about a brilliant surprise attack from there, hence he order the southern army forward and prepared to fight, but almost used up the MPs. So he dug in for next turn's attack. Then pass back to Brian,
And then Brian thinks, no, it is better to have in depth defense rather than forward defense. So, he broke contact with the enemy, and draw them back at the same place, and dug in again.
Then Shane thinks, oh hell, where was my perfect surprise attack? oh here, damn brian, ... yo, forward... then ..
and then ...
...
Finally their opponets complained about they are digging in "fortress" everywhere unnecessarily and broke the house rule...
:D
Actually, I like the idea of a Supreme Commander giving guidance for their side's moves and letting the sub-commanders make the moves to take the objective dictated.
EXAMPLE : In a game of DNO say, the German commander would have players for AGN, AGC and AGS.
Objectives would be given to each Army Group player as would OKH forces the Supreme Commander would elect to allote to each player. It would then be up to each player to use his forces as he saw fit to obtain those objectives.
The one problem I could see with a system like this would be how to bring all those separate player turns into one whole.
I tried this once, in a game of Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri. It really sucked being a player, since we were not even allowed (in the experiment) to relay general plans to one another. At best, we had to rely on the experience we had with each other's playing styles, gained from previous pbem games. Needless to say, appreciation for the game's AI was much increased, after seeing the utter confusion that reigned, in trying to set and execute long term planning, and having it all go out the window, because someone before you did something incompatible with your own plan.
Count me out, but have fun trying...:devious:
See, this is entertaining already.
tigersqn,
I also wonder how to incorporate your idea. Like I said earlier, if I where the first to move for my side it may very well end the turn if I attacked. Then the other commanders on my team wouldn't get a chance to do anything.
Maybe two teams, where we take turns taking turns and strategy sharing is allowed is the way to go if we want good results. If we want insane results, no strategy sharing, just pass it on, don't worry about what side you are playing when the turn comes to you.
What I was talking about was player A, B and C controlling say AGN, AGC and AGS south respectively.
The Supreme commander gets the turn, surveys the situation then formulates short or long-term strategies, whatever. He passes a saved game on to player A. Player A makes his moves with ONLY his units. He sets up any attacks he wants. He does not execute those attacks. He saves the game when he is done and passes it on to player B who does the same and player C.
Then whoever is last (or the overall commander, whicever) executes the turns attacks and passes the save game on.
That's the only way I can see to really make this work without having different people for different turns.
The problem is, as I pointed out earlier, its already taking some people a couple of years to finish a multi-hundred turn game - imagine if that was multiplied by 3 or 4 for each single turn...
It would only take one person being delayed with his "mini-turn" to stop the entire chain of events.
Everyone is guaranteed at least one combat round, but if someone's attack screws the pooch and sucks dry 5 more, well, I'm sure there were plenty of field commanders who were dissapointed with the actions of their colleagues which adversely affected their operations ;).
Siberian HEAT
13 May 03, 17:18
For the sake of speed maybe the best format is such.
Team A has 4 players. Team B has 4 players.
A1 plays his entire turn, then sends to B1 who does the same
B1 sends to A2, A2 to B2, and so on. Everyone stays on the same side and communicates openly with their teammates. Each person will play every 4th turn...and the whole excercise is more for enjoyment than for points or anything of that nature.
Perhaps a short scenario (say about 12 turns) would be a good start to dry-run this concept.
Fielding individual armies a-la-DNO army groups is a noble goal...but practical realities make it all but impossible. No one wants to send files over and over for each phase in a turn. :cry:
I like the S. HEAT format, even though it does go away from creating mass confusion.:cheeky:
That sounds good, and I think the open communication could be a good learning experience if we can team up some new PBEMers like myself with veterans.
We'll wait for tomorrow to see if more are interested, divy up teams and get a first turn out by Thursday evening.
Ok, HEAT's idea is good for a go! It's really the only workable plan out there. And I think we should just start with either 3 or 4 to a side. If more players come in, we start a second game, and get a bit more experience with this system under our belts.
Ok, let's call out 'I'm in', and count heads. We should maybe have Brian select the teams, with he and I being on opposing sides.
Ooooh ooooh oooh! I was about to start asking which scenario we should be playing, when a great idea occurred to me! A couple people here wanted to incorporate mass confusion as part of the issues we'll have to contend with! So I know the *perfect* scenario for that!
Let's play Fall Grau!
The WWII Invasion of the US by the Axis forces! This will be great, because players can get both the Germans and the US off in a hundred directions! And the Axis can choose to open a new front on any given turn! Confusion and being POed will be part and parcel of the game, as you never have ANY clue what you'll find when you open your turn! Will you HAVE to ship more Germans to that 3rd front to avoid being pushed back into the sea, when what you really want to do is continue on in from your original beachead?
I'm open to anything, but this sounds like the ideal scenario. Huge, but starting small (unit density) and gradually growing... And at 90 turns, the length is ideal!
Opinions?
My Precious, my Precious thread, where have you gone.
Theyse can'ts have my Precious, PRECIOUS......:confused:
Siberian HEAT
14 May 03, 11:38
Originally posted by DeconMan
My Precious, my Precious thread, where have you gone.
Theyse can'ts have my Precious, PRECIOUS......:confused:
Here DeconMan...these should make you feel better about losing your precious...
:banana: :banana: :banana:
Siberian H.E.A.T.
:D
Originally posted by jlbetin
Concerning Bananas :banana: refuse to buy US one as the best are EU ones :D
Very true. American banana's are genetically modified and may cause impotence :cry:.
(just to hijack Decon's thread some more)
Well, should we give this a go?
Siberian HEAT
14 May 03, 13:43
Maybe we should start with something small? I am all for doing Fall Grau...but it is rather large and is still in playtest mode which might be a problem?
We need a smaller scenario to work out the bugs first...
Maybe we should start a new thread too? :D
Originally posted by Siberian HEAT
Here DeconMan...these should make you feel better about losing your precious...
:banana: :banana: :banana:
Siberian H.E.A.T.
:D
First let me say, hey all from tropical Playacar, Mexico (south of Cancun) where it is sunny, warm, and with mucho muy bonita senoritas.
Second, ok I give what is with the frelling bananas?
Sunburned and hopped up on Pina Coladas, but sincerly yours
Decon
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