What Theater/Situation should the next SPMBT Combat Campaign cover?

[Double Deuce]

I'll post this just to stir up a little conversation. :devil:

As the SPMBT - Island Civil War gets close to a final outcome I will begin working on the next one.

What I am planning at this point is;

NATO (Brigade) vs. Warsaw Pact (Motorized Rifle Division)
May 1985
Zone Movement/Combat system

Attached is the planned map. Each Strategic Hex/Numbered Zone will be a 70x70 hex SPMBT Battle Map (or 3500 x 3500 meters).

[danstudentvcc]

Hello DD.

The map looks good.
The selection looks to be memorable [are we all going to die nuked back then or afterward?] ..
It pits the good guys, Us vs the Bad Guys, Communists, .. so I am in!

Say is there anyway that we can play our Nations in this campaign..that would make me Canada under the NATO Flag. [However as I recall a big part of the politics of NATO back then was the requirement that common weapons be used - this usually means common to the US aircraft and other assorted miscellaneous ..]

danstudentvcc

[mr_clark]

So that sounds interesting!!!!

Would be in for Pact!

the scale is quite good IMHO, Gus's Idea about country specific units is also something I like if practicable...

[dita]

This sounds good. Count me in.

I`m about 3/4 way through "The third world war: August 1985" By Sir General J Hackett. Its certainly got me in the mood.

Also, the idea about country specific is good, but I imagine that would take alot more organising/time.

[Double Deuce]

Say is there anyway that we can play our Nations in this campaign..that would make me Canada under the NATO Flag. That is a good possibility. It will be set after the main fighting has subsided from the previous winter. Spring offensives are in the air. Normal sectors no longer apply (ie. British in North, US in South, etc).

NATO will most likely include US, Great Britain, Canada, France and West Germany.

Warsaw Pact will most likely include Soviet Union and East Germany.

I have an idea for including possible forces from Hungary, Romania and Poland (allied with the NATO side). :devil:

Austria would be Neutral.

[mr_clark]

Would be great to command a GDR tank batallion on behalf of the support of the pact mech infantry regiment, something like the personal shotgun of the commander... :)

[Cougar_DK]

Hi guys, I took a look at your rules and map from the current game. And I must confess it looks real cool.

So what does it take to join? SPMBT and a lot of time every day or ?

Cheers
Mark

[Pannonicus]

Hey, I would be in for Hungary in NATO! Lets reverse 1956, this time we will really kick Russian asses! :devil:

[aef027]

Count me in also. Prefer NATO, but will play either side.

-Al (manhunter)

[Double Deuce]

Hey, I would be in for Hungary in NATO! Lets reverse 1956, this time we will really kick Russian asses! :devil:I am thinking this situation;

The war has been dragging on for about 1 year. Both sides are exhausted and the "minors" are getting war weary. Austria was with NATO but has dropped out of the war and claims neutrality. All forces return home to Austria. With the Soviet Union stretched to the limit militarily, Hungary sees an opportunity to seperate from the WP. After negotiations with Austria, it is arranged that Hungarian forces operating in Southern Germany (near the German/Austrian border town of Passau) can seek asylum and safe passage back to Hungary IF they can reach Austrian soil. The Soviet Union and GDR move to block this and attack the Hungarian Forces to prevent their exit. NATO also sees the opportunity to advance the front lines while the Soviets are distracted. To be continued . . . .

[Pergite]

1985 is a great time to choose because the gap in thechnology wouldnt be that big between the sides. I think that will make the battles much more interesting and balanced.

I would love to represent the Bundeswehr ;) .

[Double Deuce]

Hi guys, I took a look at your rules and map from the current game. And I must confess it looks real cool.

So what does it take to join? SPMBT and a lot of time every day or ?It doesn't involve a lot of time unless you want it too. Basically each team commander gives their orders and I determine if there are any battles. If there are, I set up the scen files, briefings and the teams decide who will fight the actual battles for their team. The battles are fought, results determined, unit locations and OOB's updated and then we start the next turn.

[Cougar_DK]

Ok DD, thanx for taking time to answer my questions.

[danstudentvcc]

Count me in also. Prefer NATO, but will play either side.

-Al (manhunter)

Well said.

danstudentvcc

[danstudentvcc]

I am thinking this situation;

The war has been dragging on for about 1 year. Both sides are exhausted and the "minors" are getting war weary. Austria was with NATO but has dropped out of the war and claims neutrality. All forces return home to Austria. With the Soviet Union stretched to the limit militarily, Hungary sees an opportunity to seperate from the WP. After negotiations with Austria, it is arranged that Hungarian forces operating in Southern Germany (near the German/Austrian border town of Passau) can seek asylum and safe passage back to Hungary IF they can reach Austrian soil. The Soviet Union and GDR move to block this and attack the Hungarian Forces to prevent their exit. NATO also sees the opportunity to advance the front lines while the Soviets are distracted. To be continued . . . .

Hahaha!
Typical commie plot to use force to whip yet another ally who is found flagging in the Communist Ideals.
This sounds ideal for 5th column activism on all sides!
Double D you need to put up a top ten list of thought-of campaign candidates or suggestions. It would probably become a heavy source of mirth,& posting activity as it does not require ownership of any SP game to get in on the activities! :D :D :D

danstudentvcc

[danstudentvcc]

1985 is a great time to choose because the gap in thechnology wouldnt be that big between the sides. I think that will make the battles much more interesting and balanced.

I would love to represent the Bundeswehr ;) .
The good guys have German tanks to make up for the difference. However doesn't Vision 40 exist at this time. If so, I believe only the SOVIETs choppers can make good the NATO Vision 40 AFV advantage. I recall that there are Vision 40 AA vehicles in the SOVIET and E.GERMAN oob so recon would get quite a wake-up call for the NATO players since the bad buys could drop smoke and then continue to fire on targets while being unspottable. No return fire would exist for NATO except for Indirect Fire.

Just the same NATO will kick Commie butt and send the Iron Curtain heathens back to tank school in a rush.:D

danstudentvcc

[Katusa]

Naturally, I would take Russia, if possible. I will save the empire!

[Double Deuce]

Double D you need to put up a top ten list of thought-of campaign candidates or suggestions. It would probably become a heavy source of mirth,& posting activity as it does not require ownership of any SP game to get in on the activities!The only thing is I would need good OOB's data at Company/Battalion level for the project. What I have been doing is researching TOAW/ACOW Scenarios to base the Campaign on. Maybe I should consider other areas and not just Europe for this? I picked NATO vs WP because it seems to generate a lot of interest.

[Double Deuce]

Hey, I would be in for Hungary in NATO! Now, why doesn't that surprise me! :whist: :whist: :whist:

[mr_clark]

Naturally, I would take Russia, if possible. I will save the empire!
It's mo empire... we don't have an emperor....

[dita]

......Maybe I should consider other areas and not just Europe for this? I picked NATA vs WP because it seems to generate a lot of interest.

How about a side story set in the middle east. To continue the the conflict, soviet forces (whose oil supply is getting low) decide to take the Iraqi oil fields. Obviously, western forces are their to stop them.

This could just be one off battles. The outcome could decide if more reinforcements are avialable in the main campaign (Soviet victory= more oil=more armour or western victory=release of troops from that front) Also, victories may mean countries from that area commit to the "cause" (whichever side)

All that desert may make a change from the lush countryside of Europe :)

Just a few thoughts....

[aef027]

Or Asian Conflict...China, North Korea, South Korea, Japan. Maybe have 3 linked Campaigns or theaters...Would be interesting but may be hard to manage.

[dita]

Yes, lots of good ideas there. But as aef027 says, would probably be difficult to manage.

[Artur]

Some historical additions to The NATO-WP campaign.
1. Hungary would have attacked towards North-Italy and not Germany.
2. Rumania always had very loose ties with WP and would probably not have participated in this conflict. Ceausescu was always keen on keeping the national souvereignety.
3. East germany and maybe the Poles and Czechs would have participated to a certain extent.

Artur.

[Double Deuce]

Some historical additions to The NATO-WP campaign.
1. Hungary would have attacked towards North-Italy and not Germany.
2. Rumania always had very loose ties with WP and would probably not have participated in this conflict. Ceausescu was always keen on keeping the national souvereignety.
3. East germany and maybe the Poles and Czechs would have participated to a certain extent.Yes, but this scenario would take place a year after the fighting started. Units would have ben moved around based on need. Maybe the Soviets would put the "less loyal" WP allies up front as cannon fodder along the new front lines.

[danstudentvcc]

The only thing is I would need good OOB's data at Company/Battalion level for the project. What I have been doing is researching TOAW/ACOW Scenarios to base the Campaign on. Maybe I should consider other areas and not just Europe for this? I picked NATO vs WP because it seems to generate a lot of interest.
Hello Double D.
You know the story about, "Funny thing happened to me on the way to the Coliseum ..".
There is producing for your audience and then there is ..
"If you build it then they will come!".
I believe that just by leadership alone if you build one, others will come.
Afterall, many wargamers have already played the major bill Nation Forces on the war-stage for many a decade. Some of the lessor Nation Forces and theatres could be fun as well.
:D
Gus

[Double Deuce]

Yes, but this scenario would take place a year after the fighting started. Units would have ben moved around based on need. Maybe the Soviets would put the "less loyal" WP allies up front as cannon fodder along the new front lines.SPMBT COMBAT CAMPAIGN IDEA UPDATE -

OK, here is what I am leaning toward at this point. Its May 1984 and the NATO/WP war has been raging for well over a year. In Southern Germany near the area where the FRG and Austria meet, Hungarian forces are currently on the front lines. Positioned closely behind them are East German forces (to keep the Hungarians loyal to the WP and on the front line :devil: ). Several months earlier Austria (formerly with NATO) declared herself Neutral and pulled all her forces back home. After some back room negotiations with the Austrians the government of Hungary works a deal that will allow those of her troops who can reach Austrian soil temprary asylum. From there they will return home. Upon learning this, the Soviets deply at least 1 Motorzed Rifle Division to help the East german forces "discipline" the renegade Hungarians. As this is happening, NATO forces in the area sieze upon the opportunity to advance the front line to the East and liberate some occupied West German land.

more to follow..........

[danstudentvcc]

SPMBT COMBAT CAMPAIGN IDEA UPDATE -

OK, here is what ... Positioned closely behind them are East German forces (to keep the Hungarians loyal to the WP and on the front line :devil: ). Several months earlier Austria (formerly with NATO) declared herself Neutral and pulled all her forces back home. After some back room negotiations with the Austrians the government of Hungary works a deal that will allow those of her troops who can reach Austrian soil temprary asylum. From there they will return home. Upon learning this, the Soviets deply at least 1 Motorzed Rifle Division to help the East german forces "discipline" the renegade Hungarians. As this is happening, NATO forces in the area sieze upon the opportunity to advance the front line to the East and liberate some occupied West German land.

more to follow..........

Sounds cool already.
danstudentvcc

[Double Deuce]

I have begun building the OOB for the next SPMBT Combat campaign BUT will wait until the release of SPMBT Windows to finalize anything. There are few things that I will need to check about the game engine before anything becomes final though. Most importantly, an increase in the availabe PBeM slots and to re-adjust forces based on unit cost changes.

At this point players will command either a Regiment size unit (WP) or a Battlion size unit (NATO). Each side will have a team/force commander as well.

[Double Deuce]

Would be great to command a GDR tank batallion on behalf of the support of the pact mech infantry regiment, something like the personal shotgun of the commander... :)Based on what I am working on at this point their might be an available GDR Regiment and it would likely be Motorized Rifle and not Tank.

[Double Deuce]

I have added a poll to gauge interest in this campaign. Make sure you vote (multiple choices allowed) so I can get an idea of how many players I will be looking at and how to best incorporate the rules to include as many as possible each Operational Turn.

NOTE: This is a public Poll so I can see who is interested in what theater (in case I need to come to you for ideas or more details). :D

[Double Deuce]

I expected the majority of votes to be for NATO/WP but wasn't expecting the high China/Taiwan numbers. Not usually much interest in the Pacific rim for campaigns.

[Double Deuce]

SPMBT COMBAT CAMPAIGN IDEA UPDATE -

OK, a NATO/WP war is what I am really leaning to at this point. I am trying to wait for WinSPMBT to come out before really digging into this BUT the maps and base planning have already started.

[Secret Agent]

When would it be?

[Double Deuce]

When would it be?We are currently finishing up the SPMBT - Island Civil War campaign (was a test run). Once that is over full planning can begin for this next one. I have notes and files on 3 different PC's so I will have to get everything together and start fleshing things out. I would also like to be able to use WinSPMBT for the actual Tactical Battles instead of the current DOS SPMBT 3.1.

[Secret Agent]

I was wondering, as in, next month? This fall? Next year? That will decide if I will be able to participate. I don't think you would like people voting who aren't going to actually play! ;)

[Double Deuce]

I was wondering, as in, next month? This fall? Next year? That will decide if I will be able to participate. I don't think you would like people voting who aren't going to actually play! ;)
I pretty much have the OOB's nailed down and the Strategic Map. The rules are pretty much complete as well. Next obstacle is how to communicate movement orders, etc. I want to keep it forum based BUT will use an older version of COCAT for tracking the campaign (myself that is). COCAT will be optional because it can be finicky getting it to run on XP. Much of the format will mirror the Island Civil War Campaign format BUT this doesn't mean much to most since it is all behind secure/access only forums and only those currently participating know what is going on and how things work.

I would like to start posting finalized details by July 1 if at all possible. That won't be fighting but would be the signups, team organization and planning, etc.

[Double Deuce]

Sample partial Warsaw pact OOB. The WP force will include the entire 48th MRD less some previous combat losses (i.e. not full strength).

Soviet 48th Motorized Rifle Division

144th Motorized Rifle Regiment (BTR)
...x1 SO HQ
...x1 ACRV-2

...1st Recon Company/144th Motorized Rifle Regiment
......x12 BRM-1
......x9 Scout Team
......x3 SA-7 Sam
......x3 BTR-50PK
......x3 Mech Sec
...1st Howitzer Battalion/144th Motorized Rifle Regiment
......x1 FO
......x1 ACRV-2
......x18 2S1
...1st AT Battery/144th Motorized Rifle Regiment
......x9 BRDM-2 Spandrel
......x1 BRM-1
......x3 RPG-7 Team
...1st AA Battery/144th Motorized Rifle Regiment
......x2 SA-9 Gaskin
......x4 ZSU 23-4
......x3 MTLB
......x9 SA-7
...1st Engineer Company/144th Motorized Rifle Regiment
......x9 UAZ-66
......x9 Eng Sec
......x2 T-62M KMT-5
......x2 T-62M KMT-4
......x2 DZM
......x3 Barge Carrier

...1st Battalion/144th Motorized Rifle Regiment
......x1 SO HQ
......x1 ACRV-2
......x30 BTR-70
......x30 Mech Sec
......1st MTR Battery/1st Battalion/144th Motorized Rifle Regiment
.........x4 MTLB-82
.........x2 MTLB-120
......1st AGL Platoon/1st Battalion/144th Motorized Rifle Regiment
.........x3 MTLB
.........x6 AGS-17
......1st Support Company/1st Battalion/144th Motorized Rifle Regiment
.........x8 BTR-70
.........x1 Mech Sec
.........x1 82mm Mtr Sec
.........x2 SPG-9 Recoiless
.........x2 Sagger Team
.........x6 7.62mm PKMS MMG
.........x6 30mm AGS-17 AGL
.........x3 SA-7 Sam
.........x4 UAZ Jeep

...2nd Battalion/144th Motorized Rifle Regiment
......x1 SO HQ
......x1 ACRV-2
......x30 BTR-70
......x30 Mech Sec
......2nd MTR Battery/2nd Battalion/144th Motorized Rifle Regiment
.........x4 MTLB-82
.........x2 MTLB-120
......2nd AGL Platoon/2nd Battalion/144th Motorized Rifle Regiment
.........x3 MTLB
.........x6 AGS-17
......2nd Support Company/2nd Battalion/144th Motorized Rifle Regiment
.........x8 BTR-70
.........x1 Mech Sec
.........x1 82mm Mtr Sec
.........x2 SPG-9 Recoiless
.........x2 Sagger Team
.........x6 7.62mm PKMS MMG
.........x6 30mm AGS-17 AGL
.........x3 SA-7 Sam
.........x4 UAZ Jeep

...3rd Battalion/144th Motorized Rifle Regiment
......x1 SO HQ
......x1 ACRV-2
......x30 BTR-70
......x30 Mech Sec
......3rd MTR Battery/3rd Battalion/144th Motorized Rifle Regiment
.........x4 MTLB-82
.........x2 MTLB-120
......3rd AGL Platoon/3rd Battalion/144th Motorized Rifle Regiment
.........x3 MTLB
.........x6 AGS-17
......3rd Support Company/3rd Battalion/144th Motorized Rifle Regiment
.........x8 BTR-70
.........x1 Mech Sec
.........x1 82mm Mtr Sec
.........x2 SPG-9 Recoiless
.........x2 Sagger Team
.........x6 7.62mm PKMS MMG
.........x6 30mm AGS-17 AGL
.........x3 SA-7 Sam
.........x4 UAZ Jeep

This is just a small sample and may be changed once WinSPMBT comes out

[Double Deuce]

NATO will include (draft);

2nd Brigade/8th Infantry Division (United States)

Un-named - Panzergrenadier Regiment (West German)

Un-named - Regiment (Canadian)

Un-named - Regiment (French)

[Mourning]

This sounds good. Count me in.

I`m about 3/4 way through "The third world war: August 1985" By Sir General J Hackett. Its certainly got me in the mood.

Also, the idea about country specific is good, but I imagine that would take alot more organising/time.

On itself I like the book, but it's inaccuracies and prejudices towards some NATO countries, equipment and equipment numbers turned me off a bit after I found those out afterwards.

I like the suspense with what it's written though.

Regards,

Mourning

[Vas FURY]

Why do you guys wanna do another NATO vs WP campaign when there already is one in progress on the same subject?

[Double Deuce]

Why do you guys wanna do another NATO vs WP campaign when there already is one in progress on the same subject?Well, the poll was stated over 1 1/2 years ago so it may not be accurate any longer. :halo:

[Vas FURY]

Ah, Lol, i see. My bad :hush: