Question for the more experienced

[Overseer]

I've just recently gotten back into playing Steel Panthers, and I never did much PBEM play anyway (or even really played SP all that religiously before). A friend of mine and I were thinking about doing some degree of assault mission - is there any guideline to go by for point distribution. Equal points would clearly favor the defender, but going by theory, 3:1 seems a bit high in the attacker's favor. Suggestions?

[Skirmisher]

I favor meeting engagements,however I think 2 to 1 or 2.5 to 1 is the way to go on an assualt,depending on the players themselves.

I also think that assualting player should get a 2 to 1 advantage in airpower as well. But thats just a recently formulated opinion on that,after all they are assualting,that usualy means a decent troop buildup to the assualt.

[Achilles]

Hi,

The answer to your question is more complicated than a simple ratio of numbers as 1,5:1 or 2:1 or 3:1.
If you wish to have the optimum conditions for a challenging game, then you must take account all the setup parameters as the length of the turns, the visibility, the weather, the type of fortifications, the air allowance and the type of victory hexes.

To give you an example lets suppose that you play an assault mission on a small map and you get 6000 points while your opponent gets 4000 points.
Now let see how this figures work under various parameters:

In a game of 10 turns and clear weather the defender has the advantage.
In a game of 35 turns and clear weather the attacker has the advantage.
In a turn with 35 turns and storm weather there is no advantage.
In a game with 35 turns, storm weather and 3000 points of mines and bunkers the defender has the advantage.
In a game with 35 turns, storm weather and 3000 points of mines and bunkers but with visibility 2, the attacker has the advantage.
In a game with 35 turns, storm weather, 3000 points of mines and bunkers but with visibility 2 and with hexes point per turn, the defender has the advantage.

So if you really want to know if a game is fair or not… the only way to know it, is by experience…
There is not any specific rule or simple formula.
Basically this is the reason why experienced players can take advantage of certain parameters to turn the odds in their favor.

My suggestion: Post here your what you have in mind and I am sure somebody will tell you his opinion if the game is fair.

Cheers!
Pyros

[Overseer]

Thanks for the input!! Great points, I hadn't even really been thinking about the other conditions.

[Skirmisher]

I guess it really just depends on the type of opponent you are playing.

3000 points for mines? lol I'd call that a fortress game not just an assualt.

3000 points would enable you to make thick minfields that would be nearly impossible to break through.

So every game needs to have a mine limit.

[Achilles]

Hi,

In this imaginery example I didn't mean only mines, but rather fortification points. :)

Anyway the reason why this game is so great... is that an experienced player who face conditions like the above will either make an aiborne assault or an assault with an army of infiltrators... So I guess those mines would become a useless texture in the map.

Or another player would create a safe corridor with his heavy terraforming artillery through the minefields...

Tactics-Tactics-Tactics

p.s The three crucial elements of an advance game (beside the ratio) are the length, the weather and the visibility.
Also you must exclude victory hexes point per turn.

My opinion is that a 25 turn delay game on large map with clear weather and 25 visibility is a fair game.
Or, if you wish to have an interesting experience try a 38 turn game with storm weather on a large map with visibility 6!!!
The ratio should be 1.5 : 1
No prelaid mines & fortification points
Air and infiltrators optional (I prefer NO - for security reasons** cheating))

Cheers!
Pyros (AKA Achilles)

[danstudentvcc]

I've just recently gotten back into playing Steel Panthers, and I never did much PBEM play anyway (or even really played SP all that religiously before). ... attacker's favor. Suggestions?I know what you mean. Theoretically the British once expected 3-1 odds as a basis for a successful attack; with no loss of effectiveness.
The Soviets challenged this by expecting their commanders to think in terms of 10-1 odds. Afterall if you want to succeed why stop at anything less than success. At 10-1 odds you pretty much own the entire battlefield.
Lastly, carboard & minatures wargamers know that infantry odds are one thing but the effects of arty and air missions results in entire column shifts in the odds ratio. Hence a 1-1 ratio in infantry between forces in a battle may become 2-1 or greater with the inclusion of those assets. As they increase so do your odds. In the end the Americans redefined the calculation of odds in a battle by resolutely persuing accuracy of the weapon and ease of deployment rather than sheer mass. In our modern eyes this meant technology, not numbers. [From the 50's onward the domination of US forces vs any opponent in a battle has increased.]

I would decide the odds quickly by deciding on map size & assets.
The larger the map and the greater the assets the closer to or under the 1-1 ratio in infantry for the attacker.
To make it worthwhile for your opponent it would be wise to allow for large formations of lower quality infantry and good defensive positions.
In closing, it is important not to get hung up in points since battles are fought by formations not points. [Allowing for technologically superior tank types requires points-the weaker side could field many times the required formation for a battle with an equivalent number of points .. which is not natural or expected].
These arguments hold as well for deciding on the number of mobile elements.
Mobile elements such as MBT/APC/Helos/IFV are much like arty/air assets.
Thus they can be used to balance a battle for both defender and attacker.
[Paras/Commandos/SAS/Air Cav etc ..]

danstudentvcc

[Skirmisher]

Tactics

I understand. Different games as well. SPWAW,SPMBT,SPWW2

There are ways to stop airborne assualts as well as infiltrators :)


All very interesting though.