Tutorial

[Theejl]

I was wondering if there is a more in-depth tutorial to explain some of the options of this game. I've had it for a while, but never really gave it much time. I don't seem to know what is going on in a turn. Has anyone created such a gem?

Thanks.

[MikeSinn]

I was wondering if there is a more in-depth tutorial to explain some of the options of this game. I've had it for a while, but never really gave it much time. I don't seem to know what is going on in a turn. Has anyone created such a gem?

Thanks.Theejl,



To my knowledge, no such animal exists. I do agree that more detailed tutorials would be of great value. To that end, I have been toying with the idea of creating a set of structured scenarios where each tutorial focused on a different (and increasingly complex) part of the game. Each scenario would utilize the same map and keep the number of units limited to only those necessary to learn that set of functions/concepts. These scenarios would not, necessarily, be built for play balance or challenge but to simply learn a new aspect of the game.



This "Tutorial Set" would serve a couple of different purposes. First, it would allow individuals new to the game a more structure walk-through of the systems and functions. Second, as Scott is continually enhancing or fixing the game, it would provide a mechanism to test/validate new system aspects.



I have sketched out the following possible scenario ideas:

Tutorial 1: Mechanized Infantry - Working with a mechanized company, learn the finer points of Load/Unload functions, formation movement and most importantly, how to work with composite units.
Tutorial 2: Artillery Support - Add an artillery battery and develop experience working with Indirect Fire
Tutorial 3: Air Support - Add some CAS into the mix and practice not dropping bombs on your own troops.
Tutorial 4: Engineering - Learn how to build and Remove obstacles.
Tutorial 5: Airborne Assault - Learn the finer points of how to conduct a airborne assault.
I have begun working on Tutorial 1. If all goes well, I will try to have a beta version ready by the end of the weekend and post it to this forum. Hopefully others, more knowledgeable than myself in the finer points of the game, can provide feedback and/or content to this process.



Thanks,

Mike

[HercMighty]

This sounds like a good idea, but I would wait till next weekend as Scott and company are trying to get another update out that should change some things.

[Theejl]

This sounds like a good idea, but I would wait till next weekend as Scott and company are trying to get another update out that should change some things.

Hello Herc,

What part of MN you from?

[HercMighty]

I grew up in Rosemount and now live in Lakeville

[compjpu]

If all goes well, I will try to have a beta version ready by the end of the weekend

I hope you have the time because this would be great
:D

[gregb7]

Fantastic idea Michael. I've been looking for something like this from day one. Particularly with the number of changes this program has undergone (and is still undergoing), this would be a very welcome addition and might even, who knows, get some more people into the game. I eagerly await your first tutorial.

G


Theejl,



To my knowledge, no such animal exists. I do agree that more detailed tutorials would be of great value. To that end, I have been toying with the idea of creating a set of structured scenarios where each tutorial focused on a different (and increasingly complex) part of the game. Each scenario would utilize the same map and keep the number of units limited to only those necessary to learn that set of functions/concepts. These scenarios would not, necessarily, be built for play balance or challenge but to simply learn a new aspect of the game.



This "Tutorial Set" would serve a couple of different purposes. First, it would allow individuals new to the game a more structure walk-through of the systems and functions. Second, as Scott is continually enhancing or fixing the game, it would provide a mechanism to test/validate new system aspects.



I have sketched out the following possible scenario ideas:

Tutorial 1: Mechanized Infantry - Working with a mechanized company, learn the finer points of Load/Unload functions, formation movement and most importantly, how to work with composite units.
Tutorial 2: Artillery Support - Add an artillery battery and develop experience working with Indirect Fire
Tutorial 3: Air Support - Add some CAS into the mix and practice not dropping bombs on your own troops.
Tutorial 4: Engineering - Learn how to build and Remove obstacles.
Tutorial 5: Airborne Assault - Learn the finer points of how to conduct a airborne assault.
I have begun working on Tutorial 1. If all goes well, I will try to have a beta version ready by the end of the weekend and post it to this forum. Hopefully others, more knowledgeable than myself in the finer points of the game, can provide feedback and/or content to this process.



Thanks,

Mike

[MikeSinn]

Just a quick update on my progress in building "Tutorial 1" (not a very creative name)...

The basic scenario file is done. I have started to play test it and put together some documentation notes for the Readme.


The scenario uses the "South Central Iraq" map created by Don Maddox. I chose this map as it provided a nice variation in terrain types and LOS obstacles, but was still easily accessible to a Newbie like me. I found that, while the topographic maps that come with the game are pretty to look at, they proved too difficult for me to easily interpret LOS issues and elevation changes. Being an old boardgamer, Don's tile set just seemed a more natural fit...


Using a US Mechanized infantry company and attached M1 platoon, the player will be tasked with assaulting and securing a small Iraqi town. The town is held by the remnants of an Iraqi infantry company and 2 platoons of antiquated tanks).

The overall goal of the scenario will be for the player to develop some comfort with moving units in formation, loading and unloading infantry from their carriers and adding/removing units from a composite grouping.

While building the scenario, I have come across a couple of unresolved issues so far. First, the player will need to ignore victory condition markers as I discovered these could not be moved or added in the current version. The second issue seems to be affecting the Bradley’s TOW system. I have not been able to get the Bradley’s to engage the Iraqi armor with their TOWs. I have sent a note to Scott asking him if this is possibly a bug or simply improper use…

I should be able to provide an initial beta of Tutorial 1 by the weekend. I should take this opportunity to warn everyone that I have never developed a scenario (let alone a tutorial) for public consumption. This could be a very interesting experience.

Thanks,
Mike

[cbelva]

There is (and has been an issue) still a problem with the setting of victory conditions). They have never worked as explained in the manual. However, I have found that you are given a chance to change victory conditions when you save a scenario as a new scenario. Try that. Sometime it takes a few times to trigger the process, but it does work, eventually :confused: .

[MikeSinn]

There is (and has been an issue) still a problem with the setting of victory conditions). They have never worked as explained in the manual. However, I have found that you are given a chance to change victory conditions when you save a scenario as a new scenario. Try that. Sometime it takes a few times to trigger the process, but it does work, eventually :confused: .
Cbelva,

When saving a scenario, the game does ask if you would like to change victory locations. The problem is when you click "Yes", the Victory Location Window is displayed for a split second and then replaced by the Save Game window. I have reported this to Scott. Will need to see if this is corrected in the next patch release.

Have you been able to change victory locations? If so, what build version were you using?

Thanks,
Mike

[MikeSinn]

Cbelva,

When saving a scenario, the game does ask if you would like to change victory locations. The problem is when you click "Yes", the Victory Location Window is displayed for a split second and then replaced by the Save Game window. I have reported this to Scott. Will need to see if this is corrected in the next patch release.

Have you been able to change victory locations? If so, what build version were you using?

Thanks,
Mike

Cbelva,

Well not an hour after posting this response, I was able to successfully move the victory locations on a custom scenario. Your assesment that the process was "Flaky" appears to be extremely accurate :confused:

Thanks,
Mike

[cbelva]

I have played around with the scenario editor probably as much as anyone else. Maybe a little bit more. I have built several scenarios. In fact, I have one I plan on posting in the near future. Due to my schedule lately, I have not had much time with the current build. The scenario editor is not the most friendly I have used, but it's not the worst either. Someone earlier stated that it was very buggy. I have not found that to be the case. It has its quirks, and up to the most recent build, it has been fairly stable. I can't speak for the current build, and I have heard that a few problems may have worked themselves in.

The two most glaring problems I still have with the scenario editor deals with improved positions and the setting for victory conditions. IP's at time don't appear to be sticking the way they should in scenarios. And we have been discussing the problem setting victory locations. I have in the past pointed these out to Scott. If you have not done so, I would recommend you send to him what you have found too.

[MikeSinn]

While on the topic of Scenario creation, can anyone explain how to create/save a new scenario so that it starts on Turn 1 and not on the Setup phase? My understanding was that the "Reset Turn to Start" option would cause the scenario to begin in the setup phase. However, whether I check this box when saving the new scenario or leave it unchecked, the new scenario always begins in the setup phase.

I can't help but feel that I am missing something obvious, but this is driving me :nuts:

Thanks,
Mike

[MikeSinn]

Attached below is the first, in what I hope will be a series of tutorial excerises. I still consider this to be a beta build as several issues remain unresolved but it seems complete enough to post here and ask for feedback...

The overall goal of this scenario will be for the player to develop some comfort with moving units in formation, loading and unloading infantry from their carriers and adding/removing units from composite groupings.

The Readme document included with the scenario contains my understanding of these concepts and some suggested actions for the player. I hope that others, more famaliar with the game mechanics will provide more details and correct any obvious mistakes I have made.

thanks,
Mike

[cbelva]

While on the topic of Scenario creation, can anyone explain how to create/save a new scenario so that it starts on Turn 1 and not on the Setup phase? My understanding was that the "Reset Turn to Start" option would cause the scenario to begin in the setup phase. However, whether I check this box when saving the new scenario or leave it unchecked, the new scenario always begins in the setup phase.

I can't help but feel that I am missing something obvious, but this is driving me :nuts:

Thanks,
Mike


Short answer, "no". I don't think it is possible. I have not addressed this with Scott. When the game was first released, you could not edit any scenario. Scott received lots of complaints and he added the setup phase to the scenarios and made it possible to edit them. Yeah, I agree, it is an odd way to work it. But it is Scott's design.

[MikeSinn]

For those of you that downloaded my first tutorial scenario, can anyone provide some "constructive criticism"? I'm particulary interested in hearing feedback on the documentation I included with the scenario. Was it reasonably complete and accurate? Should I go into greater detail for the next tutorial (tentatively built around artillery usage) or drop the documentation part entirely?

Thanks,
Mike

[Cougar_DK]

Hi Mike, if its ready for 210, I will take a look tomorrow night.

[MikeSinn]

Hi Cougar,


I ran through the scenario once after upgrading to 210 without any significant issues. I have hit a few bugs (mentioned in another thread) but these seem to be scenario independent.

Thanks,
Mike

[HercMighty]

I tried this last night for a little while. The tutorial says the units should start out unloaded but they don't. Then I started getting errors all over the place for bad movement paths after I issued movement orders, I also got a lot of ROF errors when looking at units with the unit detail info window. So I put it away for the night.

I had also noticed that the one turn I did do that most of my force was also wiped out, I lost a lot of good men that night.

[MikeSinn]

I tried this last night for a little while. The tutorial says the units should start out unloaded but they don't. Then I started getting errors all over the place for bad movement paths after I issued movement orders, I also got a lot of ROF errors when looking at units with the unit detail info window. So I put it away for the night.

I had also noticed that the one turn I did do that most of my force was also wiped out, I lost a lot of good men that night.Yuck! That doesn't sound pretty :o During playtesting, I would typically lose a Bradley or two on the first turn. I considered this a good motivator to get the troops moving. :devil:

I know about the issue with units starting loaded. This is due to being forced to start the scenario in the set-up phase rather than on Turn 1. To counter this, I included instruction in the Readme (under Known Issues) to instruct the player to manually unload all their units before ending the set-up phase.

The bad movement path errors sound new. I didn't encounter any during my (limited) playtetsting. I will see if I can recreate the issue tonight. Did you send a save game file to Scott with the error?

The ROF issue is an old one. I seem to encounter that in both the previous build and the current build. It seems to only affect user created scenarios. I have no idea how to avoid that one.

Any thoughts or opinions on the documentation? In my mind that really should be the heart of the Tutorial series. The individual scenarios are simply a means to learn these concepts.

Thanks,
Mike

[Choowee]

It semed to work fine for me. I am actually enjoying the "tutorial" as a scenario. Good job. My only problem was that my troops on foot didn't seem to move at all. The HQ and two units who lost their Bradley's seem to be staying put. I think there may be a forced delay in orders, per the movement order screen. Not sure why. I am not finished yet, I have reached the village and am readying to unload for a sweep.

[MikeSinn]

It semed to work fine for me. I am actually enjoying the "tutorial" as a scenario. Good job. My only problem was that my troops on foot didn't seem to move at all. The HQ and two units who lost their Bradley's seem to be staying put. I think there may be a forced delay in orders, per the movement order screen. Not sure why. I am not finished yet, I have reached the village and am readying to unload for a sweep.Choowee,

Glad to hear you are not experiencing similar problems and that you are enjoying the scenario. I'm working on Tutorial 2 and hope to have something pulled together by this coming weekend. We'll have to see if the "Honey-do" list will allow for it :laugh:

Thanks,
Mike

[Cougar_DK]

Hi Mike, I like your way of first tell people of the stuff they are going to learn and how the screens looks. But I also like to be guided through the first couple of turns. I.e. select the unit in location 7214, right click and select movement and move it to location 7210 by formation, etc.

But I guess its just me :)

Mark

[MikeSinn]

Hi Mike, I like your way of first tell people of the stuff they are going to learn and how the screens looks. But I also like to be guided through the first couple of turns. I.e. select the unit in location 7214, right click and select movement and move it to location 7210 by formation, etc.

But I guess its just me :)

MarkMark,
Thanks for the feedback.

I had originally considered adding a more detailed walk-through for the first couple of turns but decided against it in the end. Thinking back now, I don't quiet remember why I decided against it, was probably just tired of working on it at that point and wanted to get it out :laugh:

I will try and add a more structured walk-through for the next Tutorial.

Thanks,
Mike

[Cougar_DK]

Sounds great Mike, and its not easy to make a step-by-step tutorial with a system like POA2, because you never know what will happen in the action phase.

I'm looking forward to the next one.

Mark

[MikeSinn]

I have posted a copy of my "Tutorial 1 - Mechanized Infantry" scenario in the WarfareHQ File Archives. I will post follow-on scenarios there are well.

You can find this scenario here:
http://www.warfarehq.com/archives/showthread.php?t=646

Work on "Tutorial 2 - Artillery" is not progressing as quickly as I would like due to problems I am experiencing with build 210. Since installing the latest beta patch, I can not create a new scenario without encountering multiple C++ errors which lead eventually to a game crash.

I have tried a clean install of POA2 but that doesn't seem to have any beneficial affect. I will probably need to wait until the next build is released before continuing with this scenario :(

Thanks,
Mike

[cbelva]

Mike,

I am assuming that you are getting the C++ error when picking blue units in the scenario editor checklist. Click off the C++ error and then click on "pick red units" on the checklist and select a unit for red. Then go back to "pick blue units" and delete the unit that says "Unit_1". You should then be able to select your blue units without any additional C++ errors. You can then work your way down the checklist and finish picking your red units. I have created several small scenarios with the new build, and this problem picking blue units in the only one I have encountered. It is a pain, but you can work thru it.

BTW, I pointed this out to Scott and was told that it will be corrected in the next patch.

[MikeSinn]

Mike,

I am assuming that you are getting the C++ error when picking blue units in the scenario editor checklist. Click off the C++ error and then click on "pick red units" on the checklist and select a unit for red. Then go back to "pick blue units" and delete the unit that says "Unit_1". You should then be able to select your blue units without any additional C++ errors. You can then work your way down the checklist and finish picking your red units. I have created several small scenarios with the new build, and this problem picking blue units in the only one I have encountered. It is a pain, but you can work thru it.

BTW, I pointed this out to Scott and was told that it will be corrected in the next patch.Charles,

Actually, I seem to hit the first C++ after selecting which map to use and then on every section after that. I just wiped POA2 from my hard drive and am installing it from scratch (again). I wonder if these errors may be due to using the user created map and terrain set by Don. I am going to try a scenaio using one of the default maps and see if I encounter the same probelm.

Thanks,
Mike

P.S. Did Scott indicate when the next patch may be available?

[cbelva]

Mike,

I attempted to build a scenario using Don's South Central Iraq map. I was able to load it without any problems. In fact, I have built several small scenarios using the current build without any problems except the one discussed in my last post. I'm wondering if you are using a map that is corrupted or has a problem. I know that there were one or two that had various problems.

Wait a minute, this new build corrected corrected a problem with the CAI files which the maps need. The build update the stock maps, but not the user created ones. I have a copy of the corrected CAI files for some of the users created maps if you don't them. Let me know and I will e-mail them to you. That may correct your problem.

[MikeSinn]

Charles,

Thanks for all your assistance. I am going to try working with Build 215 and will hopefully have better results :)

I will let you know if I encounter any of these issues again

Thanks,
Mike

[cbelva]

No problem. I hope it worked. I noticed in the readme section it mentioned the CAI files for "some" user made maps. Hopefully they were included in this build to all. If not let me know and I will send you what I have.

[Spookie71]

Hello

Just got my copy of POA....very impressive, I've gone through the first tutorial and now want to try out tutorial 1 created by Don Maddox. I don't know where to get the map for Al sawa though it didn't come with the zip file. Do I need to find this elsewhere?

thanks
Scott

[Spookie71]

Hello

I figured the map of al sawa out, I downloaded it from the hps site, but I'm wondering why it is shaded gray?? is this something I have done wrong??

Scott

[HercMighty]

Go to "Display" and turn on "Elevation Shading" that will fix it.