View Full Version : Fionn vs Geordie
Ok so I thought I might as well give a running update on the battle.
So far Geordie seems to be advancing along a broad front. 12 separate dust plumes in 6 main groupings advance towards hull-down positions or open plains. The fact that he has 6 main groups but 12 dust plumes is sloppy work. It is gifting me info on his numbers. My forces, by comparison, are advancing in 4 groups and are raising a total of 5 dust plumes, thus robbing him of information as regards the weighting of each thrust.
Tried to attach a picture but there was some error.. Maybe next time.
Well, Geordie certainly is dedicated to the game...We've already exchanged 16 files... as against the 4 managed by Mankan in the past month or so.
So, we're on turn 5...
A Stuart is spotted on the 2nd hill along the main road in the centre of the map. It is taken under fire by Pz IIIs, IVs and Marders and is quickyl dispatched. The Marders also take a Sherman on my left flank under fire and hit it. The Sherman stops, makes no attempts to engage my forces and so is either shocked or in the process of being abandoned.
Elsewhere this fire brings Geordie's covering forces into line. 3 Grants pop up on my extreme right flank,w here they are faced by only 2 Pz IVs. One Pz IV is quickly destroyed while 3 shells ricochet from Grant frontal armour at only 500m range.
Behind the Stuart at least a platoon each of Shermans and Grants hoves into view and begins firing at my Pz IIIs.
So, the stage is set for Turn6.
Both Marder platoons and a platoon of Pz IVs are in action. Ranges are under 800m and there are a lot of "quarter" aspect shots going in from my forces. With a bit of luck that'll result in a good haul of kills.
The Veteran Pz IV platoon continues to manoeuvre forward. Both central flags are in German hands and they are now a mere 200 metres from the position of the destroyed Stuart. I'm gonna place them in full defilade behind the hill crest and hope for the Allies to roll over them.
The Marder platoons are working forward using bounding overwatch both on the platoon and sub-platoon level. It seems to be working quite nicely and I think the enemy right flank ( with the 3 x Grants) should collapse under the weight of the attack delivered by 1 Marder platoon and 1 Panzer IV platoon.
Waiting for turn 6 to be returned. I'll fill you in once it is back. It should be bloody.
Well, it would appear the tide had turned against Germany in this game ;).
The two Marder platoons ( Crack and Elite units) managed to miss with every shot this turn. No Grants were hit and in the last 10 seconds of the turn they took out 2 of the Marders.
I'm manoeuvring the Pz IVs of the Veteran platoon to engage the Grants from the front right quarter in the hopes of getting some hits but those Grants are proving extremely tough at 500m+.
On the left things are steady. The Sherman I thought was knocked out has closed up with the rest of its platoon... So probably only a casualty then... and they are bringing good fire to bear on my Pz IIIs. Meanwhile I'm trying to use the Pz IIIs to pick off Stuarts while avoiding the Grants... I'm going to have to stop taking the Grants on head-on.
So far, 4 -1 in Geordie's favour.
The disaster continues to unfold apace...
I've actually counted 12 ricochets in the past 2 turns, including ricochets from Grants (the majority) and Shermans. So far, no penetrations from any shots in the past 2 turns. If I wasn't seeing it I'd hardly believe it.
Meanwhile another 3 of my tanks go up in smoke as my platoon-sized ambush of the right front quarter of the Grants at uner 500m results in 0 hits on my side and 4 hits on his side ( even with moving Grants). It's enough to just make you want to switch sides ;).
I detest people who put their losses down to bad luck but I really think that this many ricochets for no penetrations at 500 to 600m range must be some sort of record. Iv'e decided I can't rely on my vehicles to hit or penetrate anything at any sort of range so I'm just gonna hunker down in full defilade and try and kill his tanks at close range ( under 100m) when he comes to try and dig me out of my hidey-holes.
At this stage a win is, I think, out of the question and damage-limitation becomes the name of the game.5 Marders, 8 Pz IV and 3 Pz III remain in commission. If I can inflict enough damage with knife-fight range tank fights then a somewhat respectable result may be created. I think that's the only hope now.
I detest people who put their losses down to bad luck but I really think that this many ricochets for no penetrations at 500 to 600m range must be some sort of record.
Don't feel bad, I have my complaints, too.
I am standing, unbuttoned, all the time, and my opponent's tanks move into LOS.
They always being firing long before they get spotted.
Shouldn't it been the other way round?
So, my fire superiority master plan doesn't really work as intended...
I detest people who put their losses down to bad luck but I really think that this many ricochets for no penetrations at 500 to 600m range must be some sort of record.
:laugh: :laugh:
Maybe looking at the same thing happening with P-fausts & P-schrecks in one game at under 30m & 50m if you want a record.
Try 25 hits with 16 penetrations for NO damage, that is a record. :surprise:
Vulture(FGM)
20 Jan 05, 04:53
Fionn
Good to see that your game is well underway. :)
Vulture
LOL Palantir...
FWIW I'm replaying that game as the Germans vs a PBEM opponent of mine to test that out... I still say though that the volume of fire around accounts for most of the schreck misses and the fausts are pretty much worthless anyways IMO.
But Gees, I just can't believe it. If even only 1/3rd of my ricochets had penetrated the game would be even. As it is the Grant cruises over the terrain like some sort of DeathStar (minus the vulnerable exhaust vent).
Honestly, I've lost 13 games before but at least they were close. This is just embarassing ;). It is so one-sided. Ah well,sometimes victory's impossible and all you can do is die well. So be it.
Redwolf,
I know what you mean... If you really want to check out how bad CM's modelling of armour covering a sector vs armour moving into that sector is play a game at night in fog. Your LOS will be about 40 metres. I played a game in that setup when I was testing CMBB vs another tester. We found that in the vast majority of cases the attackin tank ( Soviet and buttoned due to sniper activity) which moved into the covered zone got the first shot off vs the unbuttoned, stationary, waiting German tank.
Absolutely unbelievable.
Vulture,
Aye, this game'll be over by the end of next week for sure.
Oh one other thing Palantir...
One thing CM has got right is the fact that fausts and such other shaped charge rounds vs armoured cars and HTs often don't kill when they penetrate.
If you think about it an armoured car can be hit in quite a few places where there isn't anything absolutely essential. Hence for those sorts of vehicles a lot of shots can blast through an area where there's nothing absolutely essential and the vehicle can continue on.
It is all to do with the excess energy the round has AFTER it penetrates the armour and the placement of the round. Rounds with huge excess energy can still hit a non-critical area and thus cause little damage on their way through while rounds which penetrate critical areas ( such as the crew compartment) can have little excess energy remaining following penetration so that they do little more than cast a few fragments around the inside and, possibly, cause a crew casualty.
Still with that said it does sound like you had an unfortunately long run of such low% outcomes... just like I'm having now. The difference is I'm not sure it made a difference in that game. In this game, it is making a big difference.
The Purist
20 Jan 05, 08:15
Honestly, I've lost 13 games before but at least they were close. This is just embarassing ;). It is so one-sided. Ah well,sometimes victory's impossible and all you can do is die well. So be it.
I know you posted previously on the need to assure first round hits and how both velocity of the main gun and quality of the crew made a difference in first round hits.
In my own post about my battle I mentioned that I questioned whether quality was superior over quantity throughout the course of a game. While I agree that quality will help a tank respond to orders quickly (less delay) and spot targets more quickly, my observation was that it was more important to place as many rounds 'down range' on target as possible. I hedged on my own purchases (less high quality crews) in order to increase the numbers of vehicles and it appears to have worked well. Granted, it was only one game but a solid majority of the kills made by my tanks, 26 of 40, were scored by regular crews, operating en masse, from hull down and turret down position.
Granted this is only my first 'all tank' game and was, at the time, only my fourth PbEM vs a human opponent. What are your thoughts on this?
I am having a bit of give n take in my match. I think 2 PzIII's have been taken out by what looks to be shermans and grants. I have knock out one or two of his grants with my marders way back in the rear but PzIII's have mostly been bouncing shells of his hull so I have moved some PzIV's in closer to the flags and up his left flank. I am hopeing to roll up his flank and get some side/rear shots in but it is hard to know if this will work.
I also lost 2 marders...one of which was taken out by the shrapnel of the first one blowing up! :mad: :D
So far the match seems to be pretty even at this point other then the fact that I own the middle flags.
...fausts and such other shaped charge rounds vs armoured cars and HTs often don't kill when they penetrate.
Hi, problem is those 25 hits & 16 penetrations were just vs your tanks.
Still with that said it does sound like you had an unfortunately long run of such low% outcomes... The difference is I'm not sure it made a difference in that game.
45 shots at tanks /25 hits /16 penetrations = 55% hit ratio / 64% penetartion ratio / 16% kill ratio
Take out 2 more SU's, 2 T-70's & 2 T-34's might have had an impact. But most likely just in the final % balance.
Well, I've concentrated fire from 4 platoons on those 3 Grants and managed to kill 2 of them. Lost 1 tank doing it and another tank on my left flank.
So, now it looks like 12 vs 3 ( in his favour) + 1 gun-damaged Marder.
I think if I can get rid of the Grants though that the Shermans should prove a lot more manageable.
The Purist
20 Jan 05, 15:42
I think if I can get rid of the Grants though that the Shermans should prove a lot more manageable.
:laugh: No doubt,...my opponents Shermans died a lot quicker and much more spectacularly than did his Grant tanks. But watching either burn warms the cockles of my heart (as a German player, of course).
Edit: :hmmm: Sherman and Grant tanks,....me thinks he went for the expensive toys, he probably does not greatly outnumber you.
I count 21 enemy tanks. I've destroyed 2 for sure ( 1 Stuart and 1 Grant). Another Grant hasn't fired or moved in 2 turns so I figure it is destroyed also.
His last Grant on my right flank continues to do the impossible. It has suffered a penetrating hit and many more ricochets ( including from the front turret... which isn't exactly ultra-sloped). It has faced off 3 Pz IV and 5 Marders and without being knocked out has killed another Pz IV this turn with its only hit of the turn. In reality the German 75 L43 didn't have trouble dispatching the Grant frontally at 500m. That I'm looking at 20+ ricochets for only 3 penetrating hits is absurd, historically speaking.
Sheesh CMAK is definitely a step down from CMBB IMO.
The Purist
21 Jan 05, 15:34
In reality the German 75 L43 didn't have trouble dispatching the Grant frontally at 500m.
True,...are you bouncing of the turret front (76mm, sloped (?)) or the hull,...the hull armour is no different than the Lee (51mm?)? I have noticed many more bounces from the turret front and more penetrations with hits on the upper hull.
vBulletin® v3.7.0, Copyright ©2000-2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.