British OoB

[The Purist]

Use this thread to suggest a British OoB and how you would use it. Then flip it around and describe how you would defeat it. I know it's all subjective, speculative and dependant on your oppposition but specifics are not necessary. General tactics will do.

[Scipio]

Ehmm, since I seem to have missed something, are the M3 tanks allowed, or not!?

[The Purist]

Yep,...sure are. In fact I believe the M3 Lee is cheap enough to afford 50-ish or so with regular crews,...may be more with rarity turned off.

[yohajin]

Last I checked, rarity for CCT games will be set at "None."

I haven't been a big fan of the M3 tanks. They looked cool to me at first, with "okay" armor (for a medium tank) and two guns, but they don't seem to stack up well against the Germans when I use them.

Check out the Churchill IV tank. It only has a 57mm gun and it's somewhat slow, but it's cheaper than the Shermans and seems to have the best armor of any available British tank. It might have the best armor of any available tank.

Yohajin :cool:

[Fionn]

Just one thing to remember.... The Valentine, Sherman and Grant are probably more survivable when they aren't hull-down than when they are.

If hull-down all shots hit the relatively unangled turrets. If out in the open a lot of shots could ricochet from the hull front. You'll be hit more but, paradoxically, you'll probably survive longer (unless ur facing something which completely overmatches all your armour... )

[The Purist]

I'll post this to both OoB.

Those with the time might want to run (test) the following at 5000 points:

German -
3 Pz IIC, Green
8 Marder II, Crack
12 Pz IVG, Veteran
28 Pz IIIJ (late), Regular

48 tanks (51 with Mk IIs) with plenty of overwatch ability and numbers to mix it up. The heavier armour on the Mk IIIs will allow it to engage the Brits and turn away a few hits.

British -
12 Valentine VIII, Veteran
42 M3 Lee, Regular

The Valentines are carrying the best gun in the allied inventory but are slow. They can play a good overwatch role with a gun that has a high velocity and good penetration, while the vehicle presents a small taget. The 57mm is not facing Panthers here, it's quite dangerous. The M3s have the armour/fire power to mix it up at range or in close plus they are fairly fast. The 37mm gun should not be scoffed at, it will kill a Marder at long range.

[The Purist]

A note for British players.

I am having quite good success with a force of Churchills against an all Pz IVG/Marder II enemy. The 57mm AP is getting through the German armour at ranges exceeding 1000 yards while the Churchills armour is turning away the 75mm guns at longer ranges.

The Churchills are slow but used en masse and making use of ground you might have a powerful and winning OoB with 42 of these tanks (12 veteran, 30 Regular).

[Fionn]

What about just loading up on Crusader Mk IIIs? Sure they die if hit ( but so does pretty much everything less than a Churchill or Sherman) but they have a 57mm gun and they're quite fast. All in all they allow the Brits to get in close fast and once that happens the Brits should win (assuming they have numerical superiority... which the Crusader Mk IIIs give).

[The Purist]

Hmmmm,... that is an idea. I suppose my resistance to it is simply based on the gamers desire to avoid casulaties. I'll crunch the numbers for a mass of Crusader IIIs with a split between Veteran and regular and see how many our Brit players could end up with.

Edit: - 5000 points each and the OoBs could look like this:

German -
16 Pz IVG (Veteran)
24 Pz IVG (Regular)
or
20 Pz IIIJ (veteran)
32 Pz IIIJ (regular)

British -
15 Crusader III (Veteran)
54 Crusader III (Regular)

This just goes to show that the choices are many and that there are solutions to fit pretty much any player styles out there.

[The Purist]

,...how about we face off while waiting on our opponents. You use your Brit force vs. my Evil Narzees.

All this waiting around is very anti-climactic :nervous:

Cheers.

[yohajin]

Yeah, we can roll if ya want. Send me a file at cwilson2@nycap.rr.com and I'll do my thing. This will be quite useful!

I'm doing a test with BigMik1 (a troopmate) as the Germans. I want to see things from their point of view, and he wanted a practice shot.

Yohajin :cool:

[The Purist]

I'll send the file this evening.

[osvold]

i like the Fionns idea with Crusaders. We should consider also the weather and daytime. The game plays at dawn, windy conditions. Therefore, the visibility will be heavy affected. So i think, that the tanks with long range advantage will lose this due the above conditions. So is this idea with fast mass attack of 72!!! tanks very inspirating, and i will try it this way.

[The Purist]

GO OSVOLD!!!! :horse:

[yohajin]

Fionn has the right idea, in my mind. Crusader IIIs are cheap 57mm guns, but Valentines are cheaper... speed may be a factor and Crusaders are much faster than Valentines.

Look at the map and formulate your strategy... focus on time.

If units have to "be there" quickly, grab Crusader IIIs for that. Their armor is lacking but they have a 57mm gun.

If you have time and won't go under too much oversight, grab some Valentines. They are the cheapest Brit tank with a 57mm gun, and their armor is capable.

For dangerous areas, grab Churchill IVs. They are the most heavily armored unit available on either side, but they aren't cheap, and they're a bit slow (1 mph quicker than Valentines).

Stuarts have a decent long-range gun, and they have a high rate of fire, so they can't be discounted here. They are also the fastest tank of the available arsenal. Don't be afraid of them, but don't base your strategy on them.

I don't trust the M3 or Sherman tanks, but they are powerful and could be useful. Forgive me for not exploring this more thoroughly. With two guns, Grants or Lees look good, but don't play that game... get an idea of what you want to do and pick forces accordingly. They might be good if you wait a turn to employ them... see what your opponent is doing, then move.

One last note: Stuart tanks have no better armor on the turret than they do on the upper or lower hull, so stationing them on top of hills (lacking "hull down") isn't necessarily a bad idea. They'll get the first shot and they have a high ROF.

There is no cheap and easy way to defeat the Axis game. Devise a plan and execute it as best you can. Use the right tools for the job. Execute your plan, conduct yourself with honor, and you'll represent us well!

To the Light Brigade!

Yohajin :cool: