A Few ATF Questions

[tinjaw]

#1 How do I check the artillery ammunition available to a hierarchy without going to each individual vehicle and adding them all up? For example, in the tutorial you set the Fire Order to fire off BBDPICM. After I fire off a few volleys how do I know how much I have left?

[Pat Proctor]

If you fire the whole battalion or battery on a target, they will all have the same amount. So checking one vehicle will yield the ammount for the whole unit.

Sorry, but there is no clearer way to do this. Perhaps this should be added to a "to do" list for AATF.

[kbluck]

#1 How do I check the artillery ammunition available to a hierarchy without going to each individual vehicle and adding them all up?

Believe it or not, I count shots myself by firing unit (I usually fire by platoons) and make tickmarks on a post-it pad. Only in ammo-critical situations do I sanity check against real numbers in the info dialog.

You can find the starting ammo numbers for a given vehicle from the Vehicle Specs.

--- Kevin

[tinjaw]

Next question is a gameplay question.

#2 How do scouts "sneak" around to get a better view of the spotted, but "unidentified" enemy units?

Take for example the Tutorial (Death Valley: Task Force Attack) where the Hummer scout units find lots of "unidentified vehicles", but if the move at all to get a better look they get instantly clobered by long range fire. If the enemy can see the scout well enough to shoot at it, the scout should be able to identify the enemy.

[CPangracs]

Next question is a gameplay question.

#2 How do scouts "sneak" around to get a better view of the spotted, but "unidentified" enemy units?

Take for example the Tutorial (Death Valley: Task Force Attack) where the Hummer scout units find lots of "unidentified vehicles", but if the move at all to get a better look they get instantly clobered by long range fire. If the enemy can see the scout well enough to shoot at it, the scout should be able to identify the enemy.

You've never fought the OPFOR in Death Valley at the NTC for real, have you?! ;)

[tinjaw]

#3) I gave 2/C/2-8 CAV a SBF mission. I thought this would detach them from C/2-8 CAV and situate them at the area I designated and firing at the area I designated. At this point in the game I got a dialog box informing me that 2/C/2-8 had completed (I think that was the term used) their mission. They don't seem to be 1)detached, 2)in line formation at the designated place, or 3)firing on the area designated.

:confused: Any idea what I did wrong? (Saved game available by request.)

Update: After this post I reissued the same orders and they seem to be executed this time.

[CPangracs]

Next question is a gameplay question.

#2 How do scouts "sneak" around to get a better view of the spotted, but "unidentified" enemy units?

Take for example the Tutorial (Death Valley: Task Force Attack) where the Hummer scout units find lots of "unidentified vehicles", but if the move at all to get a better look they get instantly clobered by long range fire. If the enemy can see the scout well enough to shoot at it, the scout should be able to identify the enemy.

Not true - if the vehicle is in defilade (i.e., in a hole and given the defilade SOP), then it is VERY difficult to identify it. In this case, you can attempt to give your scouts the "supress" command on the unidentified vehicles, if they are in range.

The problem here is that I THINK the vehicles in question have longer-range weapons than the scout vehicle.

Drop a few dozen rounds of DPICM on them while you manuever your real combat units into engagement range - don't engage them with your scouts, that's not what they are for! Pop smoke and bring some steel rain to bear!
;)

[kbluck]

The truth of the matter is that units that are trying to remain hidden can be extremely difficult to identify. Often, the best your scouts can do without getting whacked is tell you that there are at least x number of vehicles at y location, with no real specifics on type or activity. Emphasis on "at least". That kind of report is rendered all the time.

You have to do what real-world S2s and scouts do --- guess. But it is not necessary to guess randomly. Your guesses should be based on your existing intel, your assessment of the enemy's likely course of action, and your understanding of how the enemy fights.

You can get the first two from your OPORD and your SITTEMP. The third is a product of experience and study, which players who don't have a professional military background (and many who do, for that matter) may not have.

Sometimes, you guess wrong. That really happens too. So, the best thing to do is to assume the worst-case scenario based on the facts you have. For example, assume any unidentified vehicle you see has an AT-5 ATGM with 4000m danger range, until excellent information to the contrary is available.

You can get your scouts closer and obtain better spots, if you're patient and careful. Use terrain to maximum advantage. This means using the LOS fan to conduct detailed analysis of their approach route. Keep your scouts in "Hold Fire" unless they have something specific to shoot at; this simulates caution and makes them harder to hit. If they need to dash across a bit of open ground, screen them with smoke or suppress with artillery any overwatching enemy units. Make them stop often, as they can see better when stopped. Often, new spots will pop up, forcing you to reassess their approach.

Sometimes scouts just won't be able to get where you need them because of an inconveniently placed enemy outpost. In situations like that, artillery is the obvious answer, but sometimes you can't see the entire enemy position, particularly if dismounts are involved. Instead, you can infiltrate dismounts to root out the enemy, or attack with a maneuver platoon or even a company team for particularly obnoxious infestations. Once the outpost is reduced, you can withdraw your maneuver element and continue scouting forward.

But you must remember; scouts are exceedingly vulnerable. Their HMMWVs are all but unarmored, yet they are quite easy to see from a distance when moving. You dare not expose them to any but the feeblest of enemy units. Don't try to push too hard; that's just going to net you dead scouts.

--- Kevin

[tinjaw]

Not true - if the vehicle is in defilade (i.e., in a hole and given the defilade SOP), then it is VERY difficult to identify it. Yeah, the more I thought about it after posting the more I came to that conclusion on my own. :nervous:
In this case, you can attempt to give your scouts the "supress" command on the unidentified vehicles, if they are in range... ...don't engage them with your scouts, that's not what they are for! Pop smoke and bring some steel rain to bear!I'm not looking to have my scouts fire at the enemy units, only to ID them.
Drop a few dozen rounds of DPICM on them while you manuever your real combat units into engagement range.I'm trying. :nuts: Hense my #3 question. I was trying to cover the "unidentified" enemy units with suppression fire along with covering the area in front of the enemy with smoke, so I could bring my engineers up to breach.

[tinjaw]

Kevin,

You're absolutely right. The more I think about it, the more it is clear that I was thinking in terms of checkers. Why? I don't know. I am way more experienced than that. If I would have just sat back and thought about it for a minute I could have told myself word for word what you wrote.

I guess sometimes when learning a game engine/system that I take it in two steps. The first step is to learn how the game works. The second is how to use the game to simulate combat. I must compartmentalize the two steps so much that during the initial learning phase I seem to forget everything I know about military science and tactics. Maybe after this episode tonight I will not do so as much in the future.

[Pat Proctor]

#3) I gave 2/C/2-8 CAV a SBF mission. I thought this would detach them from C/2-8 CAV and situate them at the area I designated and firing at the area I designated. At this point in the game I got a dialog box informing me that 2/C/2-8 had completed (I think that was the term used) their mission. They don't seem to be 1)detached, 2)in line formation at the designated place, or 3)firing on the area designated.

In order to "detach" the platoon, you have to actually pull it out of the company. Just click and hold the platoon and drag it to an empty spot in the hierarchy tree. It will become of the top-level units in your task force. Then, it will not be "sucked in" to company orders and formations.