CMAK Cross Club Armored Joust! Sign Ups!

[KG_Norad]

OK men, FORM UP! The moment we have been waiting for is almost upon us.

The Cross Club Armored Joust is now taking sign up's! Please utilize this thread to sign up.

We need about 12 able bodies to pulverize other gaming clubs into submission! I know you are up to that challenge. I don't need to tell you that you're the best of the best, it is evident in your elan, and in the steely glint in your eyes....Gentlemen WHQ needs you to stand up for our way of life! Your loved ones need not feel the whip of opression, nor be trampled beneath the jackboots of our foes IF you stand up today to be counted!

Here is a link to the CMBO Armored Joust that is currently in progress. It will provide you with information of what you can expect. http://www.667.hab.dsl.pipex.com/Wargaming/CM/2004-Armoured-Joust-CMBO/2004-Armoured-Joust-CMBO-Homepage.html

We are looking to have the team mustered and ready to lock n load by 11/06/04 There may be a small delay if the current battle runs over but it should not be more the a week or two.

So what are you waiting for gentlemen...? :ar15:

[The Purist]

Um,...I sign "here">>>>>The Purist.

Count me in.

[Redwolf]

How many games, PBEM or TCP/IP?

[Mephisto]

I'm in. Let's do this. :ar15: :nofear: :ar15:

[ER_Chaser]

hmm. .so sad I do not have CMAK ..

hey, Mike, you have some CMBB cross-club kick-bottom tourney? :D

[Artur]

Can Novices join? I know I will have my a@@ handed to me but that is the best way to learn...

Artur.

[Artur]

BTW on the page it says:
CLUB CHALLENGE - No 2 CMBO ARMOURED JOUST

Is it CMBO? If yes I decline.

Artur.

[Doctor Sinister]

:hmmm:

Errrrrrrmmmmmmmm.........I dunno.......

I mean - I'd love to - think of the glory and the honour! BUT...I'm not exactly the "best of the best". Think of the shame and...well...the extra shame.

There must be LOADS of guys here who would do a thousand times better than me.

Will there be tea and cakes afterwards? I take four sugars.

Help! I'm undecided!

Dr. S.

[ER_Chaser]

undecided? Nah.. you fake, you not our great leader, that confident prime evil! .. you must be prof. Sanity ... you fake!

Go, leader, go! you will lead the fearless goons to the end of the destruction of all other wargame clubs on any islands! :devil:

[Doctor Sinister]

undecided? Nah.. you fake, you not our great leader, that confident prime evil! .. you must be prof. Sanity ... you fake!

Go, leader, go! you will lead the fearless goons to the end of the destruction of all other wargame clubs on any islands! :devil:
Saintly is dead! Or at the very least, very hungry since I buried him alive in a lead coffin thirty feet underground. :D

I rather suspect that NORAD will want to be our Leader in this glorious crusade - but you've persuaded me - if no-one more experienced fancies a go, can I tag along for the ride guys? I make no promises mind...

Dr. S.

[ER_Chaser]

aha ... that sounds much better .. yea, go, leader! :D

(and * ooops.. it was prof. saintly lol... I just had some sa something in mind left .. Maybe that was what he transformed to in that cold coffin . )

[KG_Norad]

RedWolf: The match is one round only. Team with the highest over all score wins. The games will be PBEM but can be played TCP/IP if your opponent agrees.

Artur: This is a CMAK event! The page is not updated yet. It is merely to give you guys a better understanding as it will follow the same format. The CMBO Armor Clash is just finishing up.

DR S: All able bodied persons are called upon to defend the mead halls of WHQ! That means you, and anyone else on the fence due to their "experience" or lack there of. ALL means ALL :D If you lack experience we will be like the Russians...learn it on the field of glory and be the first in Berlin!! :horse:

I was actually not planning on being the team captain...(so work on my official AK tourney could continue) Any volunteer's would be welcome. I will only step in if we get no takers. If someone wants to step up to lead the charge for us I'ld be very grateful!

One other item of interest if we get more then 12 who want to join...if we can get 24 we can field 2 teams...something to think about so don't be shy! :devious:

[Doctor Sinister]

Hurrah!!!!!!

Dr. S.

[Redwolf]

Count me in if you want me.

I didn't play the WFHQ ladder, my last ladder game was on tournamenthouse.com, back in the days :crosseye:

[Artur]

... All able bodied persons are called upon to defend the mead halls of WHQ! That means you, and anyone else on the fence due to their "experience" or lack there of. ALL means ALL :D If you lack experience we will be like the Russians...learn it on the field of glory and be the first in Berlin!! :horse:

...

One other item of interest if we get more then 12 who want to join...if we can get 24 we can field 2 teams...something to think about so don't be shy! :devious:

Wow!

I am in. Do I have to register in W.A.R.S?

Artur.

[Boff]

Count me in, round 3 of 3MiF is a long way off yet..

[BigMik1]

Count me in also......ready to go!! I am with ACG.

BigMik1

[Mephisto]

:hmmm:

Help! I'm undecided!

Dr. S.
I almost had a heart attack when I saw this. But I was able to hold off on that until I read the rest of the posts. :laugh:

You sell yourself short, Doc. Let's show these other groups what WHQ and 5ACG is all about! :rifle:

BELLA GERANT ALII!!!!

[KG_Norad]

Wow!

I am in. Do I have to register in W.A.R.S?

Artur.

Yes you are in! :D
Yes please join the ladder and good hunting!

[KG_Norad]

Hey ER, Vulture is just finishing up a CMBO Armored Joust. He might do a CMBB one some time in the future. I will try to keep an eye on that! Especially if this goes as well as I hope.

[Redwolf]

What about me?

[KG_Norad]

You too RedWolf :D and everyone else. Basically the first 12 people are more or less guaranteed a spot. After that you will be considered as an alternate in case some one can't do it once it actually starts. If we get 24 people then we will have 2 teams and all will play.

I am glad to see people interested in this! I think it will be exciting to test our mettle against other clubs!

[Scipio]

Maybe I have gather a few expiriences in the last 4 years, but I don't think that I'm good enough for this.:nervous:

Would you please be so kind as to consider to count me in anyway?

[KG_Norad]

Maybe I have gather a few expiriences in the last 4 years, but I don't think that I'm good enough for this.:nervous:

Would you please be so kind as to consider to count me in anyway?

Of course! :D

[ER_Chaser]

Hey ER, Vulture is just finishing up a CMBO Armored Joust. He might do a CMBB one some time in the future. I will try to keep an eye on that! Especially if this goes as well as I hope.

hoho.. that sounds exciting ... believe me, we will honor WHQ for sure :D

[JVSFugitive]

Sign me up please ;)

[ER_Chaser]

Maybe I have gather a few expiriences in the last 4 years, but I don't think that I'm good enough for this.:nervous:

Would you please be so kind as to consider to count me in anyway?
oh ho... Pete, if you are "not good enough" for this, who would possibly be? :D

[KG_Norad]

Perhaps...he is trying to lure some of our newbies to an unwitting doom? :devil: :freak:

[ER_Chaser]

Perhaps...he is trying to lure some our newbies to and unwitting doom? :devil: :freak:
Your wisdom is simply unbounded, your majesty. See what he posted on the opponent session? :D

[Scipio]

Perhaps...he is trying to lure some our newbies to and unwitting doom? :devil: :freak:

This is the thanks for all the lessons I've taught to my students... :cry:

:D :whist:

[Palantir]

This is the thanks for all the lessons I've taught to my students... :cry: :D :whist:

I'm sure you had a hard time not typing in "suckers" instead of students! :laugh: :freak:

[ER_Chaser]

No, I thought Pete meant for ... me .. oh well :D ... that does not exclude your word completely though :)

[KG_Norad]

Your lessons are sharp...but so is your wisdom! :hurray:

[osvold]

Hi all,

if there is place for me in the 2nd dozen i will be glad to take part. I am for sure not the best player over there but if i can play, i promise, i will do my best to wipe out the enemy.

BTW: i am member of the Blitz, can i play also for the opposite side? :D

[yohajin]

I wouldn't mind a piece of this action...

[Scipio]

Hi all,

if there is place for me in the 2nd dozen i will be glad to take part. I am for sure not the best player over there but if i can play, i promise, i will do my best to wipe out the enemy.

BTW: i am member of the Blitz, can i play also for the opposite side? :D

Sure, but let us first please know which side should hang you as deserter. :dead: ;)

[Doctor Sinister]

I wouldn't mind a piece of this action...
Hey Yohajin! Nice to see you here!

When are you going to call that KV1 away from my poor ravaged troops?

Dr. S.

[Scipio]

No, I thought Pete meant for ... me .. oh well :D ... that does not exclude your word completely though :)

Well...the best swordsman does not fear the second best, he fears the newbie. An old saying...from China, AFAIK :D

[ER_Chaser]

LoL ... nice trick... you mean, he made the newbie fear? :D

[yohajin]

Hey Yohajin! Nice to see you here!

When are you going to call that KV1 away from my poor ravaged troops?

Dr. S.
Kruschev will cruelly execute my family in Moscow and take away my dacha on the Baltic if I do that...

[yohajin]

P.S.: I've since played games with armor and artillery rules which are much to my liking--no more KV-1s but hey, there's always parity to consider. :smoke:

Yohajin

[GAZ NZ]

You can count me in.
Ill give em a run for there monnies!!

[KG_Panther]

I would love to play in this. Is it TCIP or PBEM style play?

[Vulture(FGM)]

Guys

I have created a web page:

http://www.667.hab.dsl.pipex.com/Wargaming/CM/2004-Armoured-Joust-CMAK/2004-Armoured-Joust-CMAK-Homepage.html

It is very rough and ready, i.e. there is next to nothing on it at the moment, but this will change over the coming weeks. I intend to do a major upgrade to it this coming weekend, (wife and child are away) and incorporate the Tournament rules and start listing the interested players. Norad, perhaps you can send me, or post here a list of your first team as a starter.

Just to claify the situation, this is the 3rd Joust to be held.
The 1st one was CMBB. Must confess it didn't occur to me to invite this club to participate at that time.
The 2nd (CMBO) is coming to an end (which you guys declined to field a team).
The 3rd and last Joust, as published, will be CMAK. Have to say that I'm delighted with the interest on this thread. (Perhaps you can beat the Poles who have given everyone else a right kicking so far !!)

I think it would be great if we could have regular club v club team gaming, so I will be proposing a follow on Trilogy at some time in the future. There is also a possiblity of a One Day (TCP-IP) Campaign coming up in which you could field a team if you are interested. (More details on this to follow)

To answer a question raised, the tournament is PBEM with an option that if both players wish to they can resolve the game by TCP-IP.

Keep well guys

Stength and honour !

Vulture

[KG_Norad]

Thanks for the update Vulture! I too have been very excited by the interest so far. I would also like to see more contact between our clubs in the future as well. Nothing like a little friendly competition to get the blood pumping! Thanks for all of your hard work in bringing this together and for the invite to join in! :bounce:

[KG_Norad]

Vulture we are a tad bit over 12. Is the team size set at 12, or will we be able to field 13 to get KG Panther into play?

Also we may get more. If we get 10 more players interested we might be able to do 2 teams of 12... What say you gentlemen? Any more takers?

Here is the list so far in the order that you posted on this thread. Please let me know ASAP if you can NOT play.

1) The Purist
2) Mephisto
3) Artur
4) Dr. Sinister
5) Redwolf
6) Boff
7) BigMik1
8) Scipio
9) JVS Fugitive
10) Osvold
11) Yohajin
12) GAZ NZ

13) KG Panther
14) NORAD

[Doctor Sinister]

Hey, I'm number 4 - my favourite number! That's got to be a good omen...

Dr. S.

[GAZ NZ]

Interesting my name is now GZ NAZ lol

[KG_Norad]

Sorry Gary! Doh!! Fixed it!
:o

[Artur]

Gentlemen,

The faster we get the battle parameters the better we can prepare for the fight. When will the info be available?

Artur.

[Scipio]

Don't forget to wake me up at battle time!

[Vulture(FGM)]

Gentlemen,

The faster we get the battle parameters the better we can prepare for the fight. When will the info be available?

Artur.



Artur

I hope to be able to refresh the site Tuesday night, and upload the tournament rules, although they won't be that different from the ongoing CMBO Joust.

I have a map that has been designed for the event, but I have yet to playtest it. Provided it seems okay, I shall make it available to download later this week.

In a nutshell 6 of your team will be Allied and 6 will be Axis. The games will be 3,000 per side of Tanks & Tank Destroyers only. (No Infantry, Soft Skins, Armoured Cars, Artillery or Aircraft) There is an option in each game if both players wish, to upgrade the size to 5,000pts.

Given the above, you can already start playtesting various combinations.

Cheers

Vulture

[The Purist]

Do we know the time frame,...41, 42, 43 44?? Or is this part of the surprise?

[Vulture(FGM)]

Do we know the time frame,...41, 42, 43 44?? Or is this part of the surprise?


A fair question :-)

September 1944 is the date I have in mind.



Vulture

[The Purist]

Yoiks!!! :surprise: ERRRGGG!!! :dead: OUCH!!!! :hurt:

Sep 44 means the narzees will be able to pick their usual noxious herd of wild animals while the allies (in a historical setting in Italy) will not have the weapons (Tanks or TDs) to successfully deal with the big cats.

I say this only based on what was historically available to the allies at that time period in the Italian Theatre. I myself am a little worried for the allied players (whether I am allied or not) having to pit Shermans and Churchills against Panthers, Tigers, Elephants and so on. Without Firefly's and, to a lesser extent, the US 76mm Shermans and TDs, can the allies field a credible force? Afterall, the allies have no IS-2s, etc. available to balance the scales.

If I may make the suggestion, Sept 42 would allow for a better balance of technologies. M3 Lee/Grant, Shermans and Crusaders vs. Pz IIIL/M and IVF2/G make for a better 'dust up in the desert'.

Just my humble opinion :D

[Vulture(FGM)]

Yoiks!!! :surprise: ERRRGGG!!! :dead: OUCH!!!! :hurt:

Sep 44 means the narzees will be able to pick their usual noxious herd of wild animals while the allies (in a historical setting in Italy) will not have the weapons (Tanks or TDs) to successfully deal with the big cats.

I say this only based on what was historically available to the allies at that time period in the Italian Theatre. I myself am a little worried for the allied players (whether I am allied or not) having to pit Shermans and Churchills against Panthers, Tigers, Elephants and so on. Without Firefly's and, to a lesser extent, the US 76mm Shermans and TDs, can the allies field a credible force? Afterall, the allies have no IS-2s, etc. available to balance the scales.

If I may make the suggestion, Sept 42 would allow for a better balance of technologies. M3 Lee/Grant, Shermans and Crusaders vs. Pz IIIL/M and IVF2/G make for a better 'dust up in the desert'.

Just my humble opinion :D




Purist

Your opinion is a very valid one ;)

My planning for this Joust has still not firmed up, as the current one is still on going with a couple of weeks still to run, plus, I'm up to ears at the moment in work on the CMBO Campaign I'm running. (Round 2 just about to start)

I'm pretty sure the map I have is probably too Italian for a Sept 1942 bust up, but I will check, but having one in that time-period sounds a good idea.

Perhaps we can develope this line of thought further. Any suggestions on vehicle restrictions to ensure playability ? (something along the lines of Redwolfs armour limits)

Cheers

Vulture

[The Purist]

"Perhaps we can develope this line of thought further. Any suggestions on vehicle restrictions to ensure playability?"

Well, my first thought is that the Panther was a very rare breed of cat in Italy. In fact, I think I remember reading somewhere that the allies had no real experience versus the Mk V until Normandy (although Panther turrets were used in fortifications). The main reason for the lack of Panthers was that, slowly but surely, the Germans pulled out the panzer divisions from Italy, eventually only 26th PzD (?) was left on that front along with a handful of panzergrenadier divisons. Likewise, the Tiger was rare with only a pair of battalions in Italy (it may have peaked in late 43 at 3 or so). If my memory is correct, by late 44 the bulk of German armour in Italy was made up of Mk IVs supported by a plethora of TD and AGs (of various types).

The allies also did not commit many armoured divisions to Italy. Again, if my memory is correct the US 1st AD and Brit 7th AD were all that was left by late 44. Both US 5th and Brit 8th Armies made use of independant armoured formations of battalion and brigade size units to support the infantry. Historically, both armies were low on the list for deliveries of newer models of upgunned tanks (M4A3E8 and Firefly, to name but two) and had to make do with earlier models.

It may very well be that Italy is not well suited to an armoured joust, which is why I suggested summer of 42 (Jul - Sep). Limitations on picking equipment is less of a problem except that US formations are not available until Nov (historically).

I realize this may require a different map but the game is, afterall, "Combat Mission: Afrika Korps" :). A map with rolling terrian, mild breeze, few (or non-existent) roads and lots of dust should not be too difficult to conjour up.

Edit: add the Cdn 5th Arm'd Div to the allied total in Italy until shipped to NW Europe in early 45.

[Artur]

We could do a September 44 battle. CMAK is good to simutate the French theatre as well. We could use restrictions on big cats. It seems to be more interesting than Italy.
BTW my Tiger was once killed by a Firefy in a French scenario in CMAK. :crosseye:

Artur.

[Doctor Sinister]

BTW my Tiger was once killed by a Firefy in a French scenario in CMAK. :crosseye:
Doesn't sound too unrealistic - wasn't Wittman's Tiger taken out by a Firefly?

Dr. S.

[The Purist]

Aye, and there's the rub. :hmmm: Are we to do a CMBO joust or a CMAK joust? I'll admit that Normandy is 'tons-o-fun', especially killing Tigers from 1200m with Firefly's but is not the intent to do a joust in the Med. (read, Africa, IMO).

Yes, Dr S., Herr Whitman was killed by a Firefly. There is some discussion as to whether it was a Canadian tank (left of the road) or a British tank (right of the road) that did in the blighter, but he was just as dead. :clap: :horse:

[ER_Chaser]

hehe.. my favorite weapon against Tiger ---- infantry! :)

[Artur]

hehe.. my favorite weapon against Tiger ---- infantry! :)

That's right, zooks and flamethrowers can do ugly things to the kitties.The problem is that we are talking about an _armored_ joust. :devious: .

Artur.

[ER_Chaser]

That's right, zooks and flamethrowers can do ugly things to the kitties.The problem is that we are talking about an _armored_ joust. :devious: .

Artur.
Oh, armored joust means ... tank only games? Well, if really so, what kind of boring battles that will be?

[Doctor Sinister]

Oh, armored joust means ... tank only games? Well, if really so, what kind of boring battles that will be?
Yeah, we need to see our opponents burning to death.

Question - do we get to pick our preferred nation? Or do we all play as one side - Axis/vs. Allied?

Dr. S.

[Vulture(FGM)]

Oh, armored joust means ... tank only games? Well, if really so, what kind of boring battles that will be?


Hummmmmmmmmmmmmm

Such a boring concept that the 2nd tournament just finishing had 4 different clubs playing and a total of 84 players.

Vulture(FGM)

[KG_Norad]

Don't take it personally Vulture. A pure armor battle is a great way for that many players to duel across clubs. This is an armored joust after all...ER ;) :p

[Vulture(FGM)]

Vulture we are a tad bit over 12. Is the team size set at 12, or will we be able to field 13 to get KG Panther into play?

Also we may get more. If we get 10 more players interested we might be able to do 2 teams of 12... What say you gentlemen? Any more takers?

Here is the list so far in the order that you posted on this thread. Please let me know ASAP if you can NOT play.

1) The Purist
2) Mephisto
3) Artur
4) Dr. Sinister
5) Redwolf
6) Boff
7) BigMik1
8) Scipio
9) JVS Fugitive
10) Osvold
11) Yohajin
12) GAZ NZ

13) KG Panther
14) NORAD


Norad

The teams are set at 12 players. Please E-Mail me when you have a moment with the relevent players E-Mail addresses. Will you be the team Captain, or will one of the players ?

BTW, I've completed a major expansion of the web site tonight. :D

http://www.667.hab.dsl.pipex.com/Wargaming/CM/2004-Armoured-Joust-CMAK/2004-Armoured-Joust-CMAK-Homepage.html

Cheers

Vulture

[ER_Chaser]

Hummmmmmmmmmmmmm

Such a boring concept that the 2nd tournament just finishing had 4 different clubs playing and a total of 84 players.

Vulture(FGM)

LoL ... Vulture, and Mike, I wasn't "personal" for sure :) .. Yet, I was serious :p ... Is it really tank only? i.e., every unit on map must be a tank or at least tracked fighting vehicles?

[KG_Norad]

I know you weren't personal ER :D but calling our guests tournament boring is not exactly hospitible either :p. Guess you don't play Kursk scenarios too much in CMBB eh...considering your aversion to tank combat :laugh: :cheeky:

Just playing around...indeed ER it is Pure Armor.


Vulture I will get you the players email shortly.

[KG_Norad]

So who in the lucky 12 wants to be a team captain. Basically your job would be to keep in touch with all the players to ensure all is progressing smoothly... Any Takers?

:nofear:

[ER_Chaser]

I know you weren't personal ER :D but calling our guests tournament boring is not exactly hospitible either :p. Guess you don't play Kursk scenarios too much in CMBB eh...considering your aversion to tank combat :laugh: :cheeky:

Just playing around...indeed ER it is Pure Armor.


Vulture I will get you the players email shortly.

LoL ... I do not intend to call our "guest" boring :D ... honestly I did not even dream about a setup with tank only for tourney. Combined arms was the soul developed during WWII ---- a balance of forces proved to be superior than any monotonic array of weapons (be it tanks or cannons..). So I did think pure tank things were boring. Well, that is for me, I am not saying it is boring for others :D ...

[The Purist]

"BTW my Tiger was once killed by a Firefy in a French scenario in CMAK"

Artur,
...that must have been a special edited OoB. I have tried every way I could but the best I could come up with in a QB for the Brits in 9/44 is the Sherman IIA (US 76mm), similar to the M4a3(76) and the Wolverine (M10 TD). It looks like the choices are more restricted than in France, which is as it should be.

Here are a few quick picks (very quick) at 3000 pts from CMAK.

Brit - 9/42; 12 M3 Grant, 18 Valentine VIII
German - 9/42; 10 Pz IVG, 12 Pz IIIJ(late)

Now here are some picks from 9/44

Brit - 9/44; 24 Sherman III, 1 Stuart VI
US - 9/44; 15 M4a3, 5 M4a3(76), 4 M10 TD
German - 9/44; 4 Pz VIE, 5 Pz VG, 4 StuG IIIG(late)

Not definitive picks by any means but you can see why I favour a 1942 battle. A canny German could put upwards of 20 Mk IVs or even as many as 24 StuG IIIs out there to challenge the allies one-to-one. The pick with the big cats only reduces the odds to one-to-two but greatly increases German survivability and killing power. The Brits are the worst off, the Sherman IIA is very expensive (260 points+) as is the Wolverine. Both vehicles are cheaper for the US as availability is higher.

Ok,...I've put forward my argument for late 1942. I leave it to the "Joust Master" to make the final decision.

Cheers.

[Vulture(FGM)]

Ok,...I've put forward my argument for late 1942. I leave it to the "Joust Master" to make the final decision.

Cheers.



Purist

Okay, I'm warming to the idea of it being a late 1942 bash. :cool:
I've uploaded a proposed map that one of the players has kindly generated for the Joust. The terrain is quite interesting, but perhaps not to typical for 1942, but provided the map works I'm not too bothered about that.

Would appreciate any constructive feedback on it, (e.g. position of flags and their value) and a definate suggestion for the month in 1942 to go firm with.

Cheers

Vulture

[Vulture(FGM)]

LoL ... I do not intend to call our "guest" boring :D ... honestly I did not even dream about a setup with tank only for tourney. Combined arms was the soul developed during WWII ---- a balance of forces proved to be superior than any monotonic array of weapons (be it tanks or cannons..). So I did think pure tank things were boring. Well, that is for me, I am not saying it is boring for others :D ...


ER, the reason I decided to run it as pure armour was to give some light-hearted variation from the 'vanilla' combined arms tournaments. The concept is of course not up everyones street, but it allows players to use large scale armoured formations the mix of which is pretty much entirely up to them. For instance in the CMBB Joust one player took an entire Stug battalion. :laugh: (and did quite well from what I recall)

Anyway enough of my ramblings.........

Vulture

[The Purist]

WHQ'ers,

The gauntlet has been thrown at our feet, our opponents line the heights around and about us. Yea, though their numbers seem great and their armour thick we shall fear not. Don your armour, mount your chariots!! Form line of battle!!!

"You ask, what is our aim? I can answer in one word: Victory - victory at all costs, victory in spite of all terror, victory, however long and hard the road may be; without victory, there is no survival."

So steel yourselves to the fight! Let no man fail in his duty or abandon his honour. We fight not for empire or glory but for hearth and home, our women and our children! Put your backs to the north wind, the barbarians approach! Draw your broadswords, raise your crosses of gold and your talismans that they might strike fear into the hearts of our enemies. Drive them into the sea and back to their black and pestilent lands, leave none alive who would rob of our lives, our lands,... our freedom.

Verily I say unto you that victory shall be ours because our resolve is unshakable, our cause just and hearts pure. Aim true! Strike hard! Drive your steel tipped lances into their very hearts so that they might burst into flame and be sent hence into oblivion!

This message brought to you by the Schizophrenic and Self Delusional Society of Planet Earth

[Mephisto]

Huh! Well, after that enthusiastic pep talk, I vote we place The Purist in the Captian's chair. :devious:

[ER_Chaser]

ER, the reason I decided to run it as pure armour was to give some light-hearted variation from the 'vanilla' combined arms tournaments. The concept is of course not up everyones street, but it allows players to use large scale armoured formations the mix of which is pretty much entirely up to them. For instance in the CMBB Joust one player took an entire Stug battalion. :laugh: (and did quite well from what I recall)

Anyway enough of my ramblings.........

Vulture
Thanks buddy, for the nice explanation of the idea. :)

True, the only battle like that I could recall in my knowledge was a morning clash at Kursk 43. Even the brits at Tobruk (when they sticked to pure armor formations) seemed to have sort of artillery support at least and Rommel used those 88mm's to the fame ..

It will be fun to look at the results... esp. that of Scipio's (comparing to others :D )

[The Purist]

"a definate suggestion for the month in 1942 to go firm with."

Two things that might be worth considering:

1) 10/42 would allow the British purchase of Shermans, not available in 9/42, if I recall correctly. These can challenge the PzKw IVF2/G.

and

2) 12/42 would allow the entry of US forces and limited (VERY limited) use of the early PzKw VIE. However, the Tiger is so powerful at this point of the war that it could be left out. Also, I'm not sure if the Germans even have the choice but StuG IIIs should also be banned (not used in Africa).

Edit: I will try downloading the map tonight and give you my 2p in a seperate post.

[Vulture(FGM)]

"a definate suggestion for the month in 1942 to go firm with."

Two things that might be worth considering:

1) 10/42 would allow the British purchase of Shermans, not available in 9/42, if I recall correctly. These can challenge the PzKw IVF2/G.




I like the idea of pitching it in 10/42. I'll adjust the web site to reflect that as the 'most likely' timescale this stage.

Any feedback on the map guys ?


As a general update, the The Polish ladder already have 2 teams recruited and are hoping to field a 3rd so I'm told :surprise: The Blitz teams are filling up slowly.

Cheers

Vulture

[Doctor Sinister]

Any feedback on the map guys ?
Wow! That is an extreme map! It looks like Tatooine...just needs a Jawa Sandcrawler to complete the picture. :D

Looks like it will be a lot of fun to play!

Dr. S.

[The Purist]

Good Lord, man, you cannot be serious!!! :scream:

We are still talking about playing a WWII game here are we not? This area hasn't metamorphasized into some Sci-Fi movie set has it!? :alien: :alien:

Seriously. The map is a just a little over the top and lacks any realism to the terrain actually fought over. I will try to send you one a little more "down to Earth". :crosseye: :)

Cheers

[Palantir]

Good Lord, man, you cannot be serious!!! :scream: I will try to send you one a little more "down to Earth". Cheers

Are you talking about that "Tourneyone" map from Vulture? :surprise:
Is this the one being used for the Joust? It would certainly be a very interesting map to play a pure Armor contest on.
It has a ton of INF ambush points... :whist:

Rocks everywhere, arid ground and the "contour" is set to "steep" to get those jutting hills. From a design point of view a very unique layout :D , but talk about weird angles for tanks moving along the roads & slopes. :laugh:

But unfortunately it's desert African Terrain, hard on the eyes just like "winter" in BB :kotz:

[The Purist]

"Are you talking about that "Tourneyone" map from Vulture?"

Quite.

"From a design point of view a very unique layout , but talk about weird angles for tanks moving along the roads & slopes."

No, no, no, no, NO!! The designer has obviously been visiting one too many opium dens. Africa, lads, Africa,...on Earth,...you know,....the big blue-green ball orbiting third from the sun in this solar system.

This isn't Mech Warrior, its CMAK!!

[Palantir]

Yes, I must say I'm also rather disappointed with & turned off by the stark African Arid terrain as much as I am the Russian Winter terrain. :crosseye:

Wearing my designers hat: The "tourneyone" map is very interesting & just needs to have some modifications.

Also set it in Italy & this looks so cool. :cool:

:whist:

OK I ADMIT IT, I'll CONFESS!! :o

I've already gone in and changed all of the settings etc and made it a "valley" in Italy!!! (Sorry Vulture I couldn't help myself, honest! The map was just so interesting...) :halo:

Trust me guys this is a great map with the "modifications!" I think you'd have tanks of fun on "this one." :coolban:

But that of course is up to the designer & the "setting..."

[Vulture(FGM)]

Yes, I must say I'm also rather disappointed with & turned off by the stark African Arid terrain as much as I am the Russian Winter terrain. :crosseye:

Wearing my designers hat: The "tourneyone" map is very interesting & just needs to have some modifications.

Also set it in Italy & this looks so cool. :cool:

:whist:

OK I ADMIT IT, I'll CONFESS!! :o

I've already gone in and changed all of the settings etc and made it a "valley" in Italy!!! (Sorry Vulture I couldn't help myself, honest! The map was just so interesting...) :halo:

Trust me guys this is a great map with the "modifications!" I think you'd have tanks of fun on "this one." :coolban:

But that of course is up to the designer & the "setting..."




Ahhhhhhhhhhh, so we have a change of location to Italy :cool: Sounds good to me, to be honest that map is certainly more appropriate to Italy rather than Africa. This would of course change the date though....................

I'm open to suggestions on the best month to chose, and also to what reasonable force restrictions to apply (i.e. no super heavies like Elephants), something along the lines of Fionn Kellys Panther 76 rule perhaps.

Cheers

Vulture

[The Purist]

"Ahhhhhhhhhhh, so we have a change of location to Italy"

Whatever you like, Vulture, you be the boss. :hail: But, I will state again that in Italy the allies do not have the equipment to compete against large formations of German armour, even under the Panther 76 rules.

Last night and the night before I playtested 4 Tigers vs 25 M4a1 Shermans in two games, head-to-head, in very hilly terrain. In both games the Germans averaged a 12.5 to 1 kill ratio. More simply put, all 25 Shermans were lost for the lose of two Tigers with a third have its gun damaged. German losses came only once the few reamaining Shermans were able to charge in amongst the Tigers,...all very Russian-like. :skull: :skull: :skull:

Add in another 4 Tigers or 5 Panthers (3000 points) and some lighter support and the Germans will simply massacre the allies. The US 76mm gun (only on the M10 until late 44) is just is not capable of winning the battle for the allies.

JMO,...but I don't see the allies having much fun in such a scenario. :o

[Palantir]

I'm not sure what the big concern is about the "DATE" for the contest.

Any tank(s) from any year you want can be put in any non-QB designed scenario.

[The Purist]

"I'm not sure what the big concern is about the "DATE" for the contest.
"Any tank(s) from any year you want can be put in any non-QB designed scenario."

Good' D'eh. Palantir,

Then we're back to my previous post on what we are trying to accomplish with this joust. Are we trying to represent CM:AK (Africa and the Italian Campaign) or CM:BO? Is this to be yet another late war battle with the big scarey tanks or do we try something different?

I am slated to use German equipment so I have nothing to gain from rolling back the date the pre-Tiger period. :devious: I am simply stating that 3000 pts (or 5000) of armour is better suited to the desert than Italy. If we import the better allied equipment to the game so the allies have a chance we are not really playing CM:AK, are we?

Just my,...er,...24 cents :D

[Artur]

Vulture, Gentlemen,

I took a look at the map. With respect I suggest to make another one more suited for armor warfare. This map is very interesting, however I would rather run an infantry battle on it. Of course no matter the map I will play. It's just my 1,9 cents you know ;).

Artur.

[Palantir]

Are we trying to represent CM:AK (Africa and the Italian Campaign) or CM:BO? If we import the better allied equipment to the game so the allies have a chance we are not really playing CM:AK, are we?

That is the major question- what do the players (designer)want here? It sounds like a fun & unique way to just play CM involving nothing but tanks.

So:
Is this just an Armored brawl using CMAK or is it an Armored encounter SET IN WW2 North Africa?

Obviously if you want it set in the NA combat period of WW2 then historical tank appearence dates will be required.

However, if you just want to have a wild tank vs tank battle using the CMAK system / terrain then any tanks in CMAK can be set into the scenario. (Of course a pure tank vs tank scenario is non-historical in the first place so...)

This is done all the time in BB to represent late war battles that involve rear echelon units that were given "non-front" line quality or early war equipment to minor countries / security units. Many early war units are not offered in the force mix under the 1945 setting. So the settings must be manipulated to get those early units into a 1945 scenario.

[Doctor Sinister]

All-armour sounds like fun to me. I like the idea of taking out a Battalion of StuGs for a spin as was mentioned earlier in this thread!

Dr. S.

[The Purist]

"Obviously if you want it set in the NA combat period of WW2 then historical tank appearence dates will be required."

Well,...I am "The Purist" :D

Actually,...the very reason I would like the NA setting is I have played CMBO and CMBB and, yes, Panthers, Tigers, Pershings and Stalin tanks are ooddles of fun. I would like to have a go at a tank battle in NA without the fancy toys and 10/42 in rolling desert terrain would be perrrrrfect. There are plenty of actions to choose from but this would, of course, be fictitious but more realistic than Firefly's in Italy (for example).

"All-armour sounds like fun to me. I like the idea of taking out a Battalion of StuGs for a spin as was mentioned earlier in this thread!"

If you like that, take a look at how many Stuarts you could buy with 5000 points,...fast buggers, too, packing a nasty little gun. If you will be playing as the Germans, take a gander at the number of Pz IIIJs. :horse:

Either way,...I'm in it for the game.

[KG_Norad]

So is anyone interested in leading this motley bunch of warriors to victory as the Team Leader? :D

[KG_Norad]

Excellent News! The Purist has accepted Mephisto's excellent recommendation to be your leader. I have officially approved the Commendation! Salute your new leader for this fine tournament!

:hurray: :clap: :bounce:

[Vulture(FGM)]

Guys

I've been busy this last week with other CM tournament stuff so I have not done much towards this tournament since my last posting.

This will be changing soon however................

Just to keep you in the picture, the CMBO Armoured Joust will finish this coming Saturday (20th Nov). Once the admin associated with that is cleared away I shall firm up all the aspects regarding the CMAK Joust including which map we will use, and any settings armour restrictions etc.

My aim will be to have all that sorted by Sunday night at the latest. This then gives a clear 5 days for players to think about what forces they wish to use and playtest the map.

I have set the start date for the CMAK Joust as the 27th Nov. The actual start will be confirmed by an E-Mail out to all the Captains, and postings by me on the relevent message boards.

Stength and honour

Vulture

[Doctor Sinister]

Excellent News! The Purist has accepted Mephisto's excellent recommendation to be your leader. I have officially approved the Commendation! Salute your new leader for this fine tournament!

:hurray: :clap: :bounce:
*SALUTE*

Dr. S.

[The Purist]

Why, Dr S. I'm so very flattered.

I've been thinking about a team theme,...something that states who we are over here at WHQ. The first thing that lept to mind was the Movie, "The Charge of the Light Brigade",....sooooo.

I think I shall assume the persona of Lord Cardigan, true professional and all that. You, my lads,....shall be my loyal and brave "Cheery-Bums" of the 11 Hussars. The "Death or Glory" boys.

Now,...uniforms. I'm thinking something with frilly cuffs and tight waist coats, snug britches to show of those tight cavalry buttocks and such. Death or Glory, indeed!

Oh my,...yes,...yes.... very good. I'm liking this better and better the more thought I give it.

Now, then...what exactly does a commander do in one of these,...these,... war-battle things?

[Doctor Sinister]

Why, Dr S. I'm so very flattered.

I've been thinking about a team theme,...something that states who we are over here at WHQ. The first thing that lept to mind was the Movie, "The Charge of the Light Brigade",....sooooo.

I think I shall assume the persona of Lord Cardigan, true professional and all that. You, my lads,....shall be my loyal and brave "Cheery-Bums" of the 17th Lancers. The "Death or Glory" boys.

Now,...uniforms. I'm thinking something with frilly cuffs and tight waist coats, snug britches to show of those tight cavalry buttocks and such. Death or Glory, indeed!

Oh my,...yes,...yes.... very good. I'm liking this better and better the more thought I give it.

Now, then...what exactly does a commander do in one of these,...these,... war-battle things?
Well Sir, I think, when it comes to an actual "war", we all sort of sit around and talk about our differences like gentlemen. And then we have a glass of port and go home again. Should be fun.

Oh, and if it comes to charging the enemy, at least with my eyepatch I'll be spared of seeing the"guns to the left of 'em". Bonus!

Dr. S.

[The Purist]

Port and conversation,...smashing!!! And, um, whom, precisely are we to have these verbal jousts with? I mean, are they the reputable type or some damn lot of foreigners?

Oh, by the way, Dr S. You are now brevetted as my number one. I don't exactly know what that means but it's in one of these damned manuals I have laying about. I can assure you, sir, that I shant be asking you to charge off any where unless it is necessary to save my beknighted and royal arse.

[Artur]

BTW: Is the time of the battle decided? Oct 42'?

Artur.

[Doctor Sinister]

Port and conversation,...smashing!!! And, um, whom, precisely are we to have these verbal jousts with? I mean, are they the reputable type or some damn lot of foreigners?

Oh, by the way, Dr S. You are now brevetted as my number one. I don't exactly know what that means but it's in one of these damned manuals I have laying about. I can assure you, sir, that I shant be asking you to charge off any where unless it is necessary to save my royal arse.
Well, that's the difficult part my Lord. Due to the nature of such discussions, there are always bound to be some Johnny Foreigners in the mix. But with our supreme mastery of the Queen's English, we shall best them Sir!

Dr. S.

(Irony or not, I'm going to get lynched for that "Johnny Foreigner" line aren't I?)

[The Purist]

Ah,...RSM Artur,...just the man I was looking for.

"BTW: Is the time of the battle decided? Oct 42'?

Um,..no not that I have heard of.

"But with our supreme mastery of the Queen's English, we shall best them Sir!"

Damn right it will Number One! And you just let me know if anyone even THINKS of a lynching and I'll have them flogged within an inch of the sorry lives!! As long as our Cherry-Bums are loyal to the Queen and the Regiment I don't give a damn where they come from. The enemy, whomever they may be, is a different story all together. A good thrashing is what they need,...right on the bum with a switch like my father did. Straighten them up right properly it will.

[Fionn]

Have you guys given any thought to a brief-in or other preparation, such as weapons choices, tactics advice etc?

I'm just asking because if you go for september 1942 with an all-armour force then some weapons systems and tactics will be relegated to the scrapheap of futility.

E.g. reconnaisance and counter-recon efforts take on a whole new perspective. Normally one recons with dismounts or, at most, single, cheap recon vehicles in bounding or travelling overwatch. OTOH in an armoured joust with no upper limit on main gun bore the utility of small units of dedicated reconnaissance vehicles is questionable... not to mention the fact that the tactical minutiae of HOW to conduct the reconnaissance effort changes totally... such that a recon conducted along normal lines is likely to cost you more than a recon conducted along simplistic, brute-force lines.

Anyways, I was just a bit curious as to whether or not a brief-in or team-wide purchase/tactical doctrine was being discussed. IMO neither is probably occurring but I was curious.

[The Purist]

CMAK Armoured Joust thread discussion now to be found under:

The Light Brigade

A fine name,...fine name, indeed.