Odd Engineer Behaviour?

[Cabron66]

I just played the RT scenario "The Breach" and was forced to do an awful lot of breaching. I noticed a few things while doing so that I thought I would ask about.

Firstly, engineer units will disperse in different directions during and after performing their assigned breach missions. At times they will wander straight out of the release area and move several kilometres away before stopping. This was not a huge problem during "The Breach" as my guys were facing limited resistance, but during DVA it was a big problem. Several of my units got blasted before I learned to keep a close eye on them.

I just wanted to know if there was a reason for this and if I am doing something wrong.

Anyhoo, the other thing was the way in which engineers perform their missions. I found that when dealing with the clustered obstacles the best thing to do was to plot several waypoints around the breach area and let the engineers go. They would automatically clear the obstacles as they moved.

Unfortunately, I found that if I gave them an actual breach mission they would not be able to clear the zone or would end up wandering all over the surrounding area making only scattered breaches.

Of course, if I handle individual platoons in column formation I can use even a small breach to move up my formations so none of this stopped me from enjoying the scenario, but I thought I would raise the issue and see what people had to say. Any ideas?

Cheers

Paul

p.s. I wanted to post a screenshot to show something odd that happened while I was playing "Turn of Events". Is it ok if I email it to you Curt? I have your email from the last screenie I sent.

[Pat Proctor]

The engineers will try to spread out, in order to cut multiple breaches across the indicated area. They will then push past the breach site and form the requested formation on the other side. Try setting all of the formations in the mission options to "none". That might produce the behavior you are looking for.

[CPangracs]

Send it on Cabron.

Curt

[Cabron66]

Send it on Cabron.

Curt

Most excellent. It's on the way.

Paul

[Cabron66]

The engineers will try to spread out, in order to cut multiple breaches across the indicated area. They will then push past the breach site and form the requested formation on the other side. Try setting all of the formations in the mission options to "none". That might produce the behavior you are looking for.

Actually, I think I set them to assume a column formation but found they would do several strange things like wander around the breach area, make individual widely dispersed breach and then attempt to approach the indicated breach zone from behind.

That does raise a good question though. When setting up a breach mission, is there any particular formation that should be used to perform the actual breaching operation? I have tried a few and have found that column and diamond work ok, but I imagine there are better choices.

Cheers

Paul

[Deltapooh]

Actually, I think I set them to assume a column formation but found they would do several strange things like wander around the breach area, make individual widely dispersed breach and then attempt to approach the indicated breach zone from behind.

That does raise a good question though. When setting up a breach mission, is there any particular formation that should be used to perform the actual breaching operation? I have tried a few and have found that column and diamond work ok, but I imagine there are better choices.

Cheers

Paul

As Captain Proctor pointed out, it is best to used no formation at all. They will try to maintain that formation during breaching operations, which can produce odd paths.

The mission SOP in ATF and RT are very nice features that still need to be improved. I really would like to be able to designate release points, fire positions, etc. If that isn't possible, they should at least be visible on the map during planning so players can better control where these events occur and when.

[Cabron66]

As Captain Proctor pointed out, it is best to used no formation at all. They will try to maintain that formation during breaching operations, which can produce odd paths.

The mission SOP in ATF and RT are very nice features that still need to be improved. I really would like to be able to designate release points, fire positions, etc. If that isn't possible, they should at least be visible on the map during planning so players can better control where these events occur and when.

Agreed. I was wondering at what point I should just go to a "none" formation. I assume the when I am setting up a mission I should choose "none" for the actual breaching portion of the operation. Are there any other formations that can be used to create specific effects? Or is "none" simply the best way to conduct a breach?

So, as I understand it, a breach mission has three sections: the approach, the breach and the egress from the breach zone. My original question actually had more to do with what happens after the breach is completed and during the breach.

Basically, when I see units starting to wander around is while the breach is being conducted. This seems to happen no matter what formation I choose for any part of the mission. My question is this: Do I have any control over what direction/position my breaching units assume after they have completed their mission?

I ask this because I found they would always wander straight out from the breach area and inevitably run staright into enemy fire. Of all of the problems that I have this is the big one. Has anyone else noticed this? Are there any ways to control it?

Cheers

Paul

[Pat Proctor]

It may, also, be that the engineers are hitting a form of obstacle they cannot breach. In this case, they may be seeking another place to breach, where they CAN breach.

If you do not like what the AI is doing, you can also breach manually. Put your platoon in a "line" formation and then head for the obstacle. The vehicles will breach, if possible, at about 100m spacings, giving you several good breach lanes. You can then stop them manually (using the "Stop" function from the "Order" menu or tool bar) when they are done.

[kbluck]

I do find that breachers tend to take off for no apparent reason at about a 45 degree angle to their expected path once they finish their lane. Usually, they self-correct given enough clear space, but if they hit another obstacle or steep terrain first, then not.

--- Kevin

[Cabron66]

It may, also, be that the engineers are hitting a form of obstacle they cannot breach. In this case, they may be seeking another place to breach, where they CAN breach.

If you do not like what the AI is doing, you can also breach manually. Put your platoon in a "line" formation and then head for the obstacle. The vehicles will breach, if possible, at about 100m spacings, giving you several good breach lanes. You can then stop them manually (using the "Stop" function from the "Order" menu or tool bar) when they are done.

A mixture of the two methods seems to be the most effective. I never thought of using the line formation. That sounds like a pretty good idea. Last night I put my engineers in column formation and plotted a path up and down an obstacle belt. End result, massive breach, slow progress. I guess the best thing is a few workable lanes when you need to breach in a hurry.

Cheers

Paul

[Cabron66]

I do find that breachers tend to take off for no apparent reason at about a 45 degree angle to their expected path once they finish their lane. Usually, they self-correct given enough clear space, but if they hit another obstacle or steep terrain first, then not.

--- Kevin

I have noticed that individual units will set paths which will take them out of the breach area and return them at some other point. I assume this is to attempt another breach because the first didn't work or simply to create another workable lane. Most of the time this is what happens.

However, there are times when, for no visible reason, units will come out of the breach area and wander off by themselves (at whatever angle) for kilometres. If you're not paying attention you can almost be guaranteed to lose the unit.

I would love to be able to prevent this from happening. It is very difficult to concentrate on multiple breaches while attempting to maneuver other assets. Perhaps a good solution would be to set a breach "zone" from which the engineer units will NOT leave. At least that way the player could be sure where his units are and how far they will advance.

Cheers

Paul