design help- attackers won't attack

[Palantir]

Hey any fellow designers, :hurray:
I have a question for you.

I've always designed strictly PBEM games but am now working on a few Single Player (SP) games and I've ran into a big problem. :angry:

The attackers won't attack! :scream:

The units enter ok including reinforcments but almost every unit then bunches up and sit usually before first contact & sometimes as soon as first contact is made. Only a few units every move out.

I have tanks going into hunt mode driving an inch a turn and INF just sitting anywhere out of enemy LOS. Even when they can see a VF. However, about 2-3 turns before the scenarios end a number of units will begin advancing. I've played them several times and the same action has occurred in all scenarios. That and all the ATG's disembark almost immediately upon entry. :nuts:

I did get a little movement out of them when I made them 25% fanatical but it was very little & again too late in the game.

Anyone know why this is or how to correct for it- very frustrating. :argh:

I've had no problems with the defenders, the AI does a good job with them.
Thanks :)

[KG_Norad]

Palantir,

It is often the case with ai that it does not know what to do with them in an offensive capacity. I am not familiar enough with CM in particular to make definitive answers so I will be general based on what I have seen in CM an other games.

1) AI generally works best when units start on the map and close to where you want them. For example if you want to simulate a meeting engagement don't start the AI on the edge of the map, start them near or at the spot you want the action to occur. Don't rely on it to maneuver units into position too much.

2)Does CM allow you to padlock AI units and release on a certain turn? If so try this. Again fairly close to the action.

3) A programming quirk may not assign enough "priority" to an uncaptured flag. Do you notice that your AI troops don't start moving until the enemy captures the flag? (I am not sure if this is the case perhaps someone can confirm) Again place AI troops on or near the flag. Also putting a minor victory flag on the Human player's side of the map, to give the AI something to fight for right from the start. Perhaps it will motivate them to move in the proper direction.

4) For god sake don't force the AI to cross a bridge!

5) Avoid reinfocements if possible. Try other options mentioned above.

6) I have noticed that the AI gets more motivated once it is engaged by the enemy. Try to place them so that contact with the enemy will be relatively immanent.

7) Jeez I nearly forgot once you go through all the trouble to place the AI in strategic positions do not forget to mention in introduction that the player should not use the random placement option but should stick to default setup.

Possibly more later if anything else comes to me. I would love to see what other people have to say on this so don't be shy.

[Palantir]

1) AI generally works best when units start on the map and close to where you want them.
Problems with that are many, #1 being that you then have to "fudge" the terrain unrealistically so they don't appear right in the enemies LOS.

2)Does CM allow you to padlock AI units and release on a certain turn?
NO it's all or nothing right at the start.

3) A programming quirk may not assign enough "priority" to an uncaptured flag. Again place AI troops on or near the flag.

AI should go from major to minor flags in importance. And it's not very "realistic" terrain or game wise to have the attacker just appear next to VF locations. Makes defending them a real *****! :) All flags are "enemy" held at the start usually by the defender, with minor flags in front, major ones behind to "force" them to continue the attack.

4) For god sake don't force the AI to cross a bridge! They can cross bridges, takes time but if you give them enough "space" they will usually line up & cross in a decent fashion. Also not throwing dozens of units right on top of it all at once helps- thus the need for staggered reinforcments.

5) Avoid reinfocements if possible. Try other options mentioned above. If any one has played one of my scenarios they know I live for reinforcments!! :p Formations just don't suddenly swarm onto a map like in Napoleons time in one long line.

6) Try to place them so that contact with the enemy will be relatively immanent. Sadly that is when they are going to ground.

7) Jeez I nearly forgot once you go through all the trouble to place the AI in strategic positions do not forget to mention in introduction that the player should not use the random placement option but should stick to default setup. To keep "key" units in their proper positions I use the "padlock" feature.

I would love to see what other people have to say on this so don't be shy.
Yes indeed!!

[Doctor Sinister]

The AI always seems better at Defence than Attack. NORAD may recall that I've been working on a CM:BB Scenario "Call of the Katyushas" where the AI refuses to use the damn things - so they aren't much of a threat. I'm still fiddling with it...

Dr. S.

[KG_Norad]

Well Can't say I didn't try. Hopefully I get an "A" for effort! :nuts:

[Palantir]

OOPS! NORAD I did forget the "Thanks" part! :)

DR. S,
Yes it is frustrating working on a scenario only to find that the AI refuses to play the game as attacker. Which is strange because I've seen the AI pull off some great flanking movements anyone would be proud of, only to freeze, bunch up and sit out the battle once contact is made.

In the defensive role the AI can play extremely well which is fine, but then you're left with adding this note to your briefing: "Playable only from the attackers side or PBEM."

I guess that may be the best I can hope for in two scenarios I've been working on for a long time. I'll just continue with making more PBEM scenarios.

[British Tommy]

I suggest you open and examine ( with the editor ) scenario's that you have already played and where the AI DEFENDS well ( the AI does not attack well in CM ). Look how the terrain is placed and where the flags are. Something else to check is height ( too low? too high? ).
Doing this you start to pick up tips on what works and what doesn't when designing scenario's for CM. Also check out the Battlefront message board. They have a section there for scenario tips.
Hope this helps :D

[Palantir]

Apparently the attackers need some assistance in deciding to attack.
From what I have been told they need a close VF location they can quickly lock onto. This might have to be in their immediate LOS, but I'm not sure since I have not had the time to test it.

It might be like the "weight" needed to capture a flag: if it's in cover you must be closer, further away you must have LOS and a "heavier" weight unit.

[KG_ThorsHammer]

The AI is a tricky thing to figure out, but i wouldnt want to know exactly how it works or it would be too easy to counter it, so I've never looked into it too much.
The AI definately isnt the greatest in attack. My only suggestions would be to have game lengths be long in Human vs AI only matches, to give it time to decide what to do. Have reinforcements arrive not on the edge of the map, but a little closer in. Try stacking several flags on top of each other as big juicy bait to prompt the big dumb bass of an AI to latch on.

[British Tommy]

There are a lot of tips over at the Proving grounds concerning making a scenario against the AI. One tip which I found was excellent, If you want the AI to use artillery, have the AI artillery spotter in LOS of an empty truck at the start of the battle.
Another thing, the AI is useless at moving and unloading AT guns attached to transport. Far better to bring the AT gun on as reinforcements but place the reinforcement flag into some woods.
Another tip given to me by the expert ( in my opinion ) who can really make the AI attack is Mad Russian. The tip is, don't have too many flags on the map. This confuses the AI. The less flags, the better the AI will attack.

[Mad Russian]

I don't know about being the expert, on vs AI scenarios, but there are things that you can do. I have an entire series of scenarios that are designed to play vs the AI. Some of those are AI attacks. In fact the very first one I ever did was that way just to see if I could do what others thought was impossible. Judging by the response I got from that single scenario I went on to develop a technique for vs AI scenarios.

As BT says, you can go to The Proving Grounds and check the scenario design section there, or you could email me the offending scenario and I could take a look at it. Be forewarned that I don't have CMBO anymore. Gave it to a 14 year old boy to start him playing wargames.

Thanks for the kind words BT. I appreciate it.

Good Hunting.