Panzer Campaigns (HPS) random tips/ideas

[trauth116]

Apologies for the probably disorganized nature of this thread. . . atm this is my main game series...

I know a few of us play some from this series - and - er um based on my track record over at theBlitz.org -I am no Rommel -unless you are talking about Manfred... :banana:

-Anyway .. I got this idea playing the 170 turn monster scenario of Smolensk 41 (as the German) -- you are faced with mainly motorized and Panzer divisions as having entered the far Western edge of the map area ( the BIG map area I might add) on July 7, 1941. Most of the mapboard area is bordered by North/South running uncrossable rivers ( except at the one ford, and the very few heavy bridges). Heavy Bridges are located at 3 cities, - Vitebesk, Mogilev, and Orsha.

It was real tempting for me to haul off and devise 'the perfect plan' for a river crossing - at least at Mogilev - Mogilev is located in a Eastward bend of the northern Dnepr River... I had 3 divisions in the immediate area... 2 Panzer Divisions and the Das Reich SS motorized division... I was going to isolate the north and southern areas of this bend with a Panzer Division each direction - the northern area I was going to send in a bridging engineer when I got it - in order to force a corssing north of town ---- at the same time I deplyed the divisional and Korps level artillery assets within range of Mogilev...

the plan was to send in Das Reich to clear out the town and sieze the one heavy bridge - and a railroad bridge about 4 or 5 miles East of town....

------------------

OK sounds lovely - but I made a couple of huge mistakes -- 1) - while I am sure the DR Division would have cleared out the town in a matter of a day or so; was that the smartest use for 3 mobil divisions?

Which leads me to the other big error - failing to observe what was in the reinforcement pipeline -- in this case - this particular area had at last 2 bridging engineers - as well as the Gross Deutschland Rgt coming up in the immediate vicinity (also a mobile unit) - but it was probably prefable to bypass the town - and leave it for infantry units to finally deal with - the bridges over the Dnepr were not that critical -as bridging engineers allow toy to make you own way...

--more on other games as I think of them-

[trauth116]

Use combined arms - from the same division at all times.

(Ok I realize I probably need a screen shot posted).

Use terrain features to your advantage - in my case I relied on the Dvina and Dnepr rivers to cover some of my flanks. (these rivers require a bridge to cross) ...

Als0 know your terrain --- a pontoon set up - to cross where there is a marsh at the other end- will still not allow your tank units to cross (it also works the other way too - they cant cross armor into a swamp -so take action accordingly).

Also the initial openings do not always present the best options.

[Alan]

Use combined arms - from the same division at all times.

Just as in real life military combat, the PzC series will reward the player who follows sounds military doctrine. There's a few things about the sereis that I wish were done a little differently, but overall I think it provides a lot of the same challenges faced by commanders. I'm just starting a 120-turn Rzhev'42 game that is quite intersting. :thumb:

[dannybou]

I am playing the same 170 turn scenario as trauth as the Germans. I am in turn 11 and have taken Mogilnev with the SS Division and have kept on going east and am crossing using the SS bridging unit and engaging Soviet Forces. I also used another division and went through Mogilnev and veered South and down into the area to the south where I have trapped a Russian Division and am destroying it. In front of that Russian division, I have crossed another German Division using bridging unit and have smashed the front of that division. Results of that offensive: Double the number of Russian casulaties than Germans.

Now to the North, in Orsha my advance is slower but the City is about to be taken. I am destroying BT7's and T26s in industrial quantities. As for Vitebsk, well I made a mistake and now I am paying for it. I attacked the city with only one division and left one of my flanks exposed. Well the AI found that exposed flank and has encircled two of my panzer batallions and are destroying them piecemeal. Oh well, that city is also taken and I will retaliate to avenge the loss of my tanks! ;)

[trauth116]

I dunno if it sounds this way - but most of this stuff are mistakes I have made in the not too distant past.

When playing a side -and faced with your opposite number having complete air superiority -- take full advantage of moving at night.

If planning an assault - be aware of the night spotting limit of 1 hex -- meaning if you have a defensive line established - you should be able to move up right behind it on one turn - and the next be in a postion to assault after moving up 1 hex. (Ok so maybe I was 2 hexes behind and my 'brilliant' idea basically meant I advanced to a shooting contest.

[dannybou]

Another tip I can add for the novice players is too mass the artillery and disrupt each and every unit one at a time, then work on breaking the units one at a time.

[trauth116]

Re: the above - yes - add emphasis - must disrupt before assaulting if at all possible (however there are times when the game is coming to a close where you may have to without disrupting your opponent.

-> I need to dig up the link -but Gleen Saunders, a member here has a site that -if you are a player of these games - you need to have it as a favorite, or shortcut for easy access.

With apologies to Glenn - I need to edit that link in.

[rahamy]

Here's the link to Glenn's site guys:

http://members.shaw.ca/gcsaunders/index.html

[trauth116]

:thumb: thx Rahamy!

I plan on plugging the Oob program that Glenn has a link to later... got some great info and a real nice presentation of the OOBs for the different games (as well as when units are slated to enter play) --- for ongoing scenarios - you can only call up your own side's data...


Anyway - a non-play idea:

Disclaimer: - I am an image-editing freak.. so this is not the most practical thing for everyone...

These games ( in fact all of the games designed by Tiller that I have bothered to check on -and I got probably more than 20 )have a feature called Snapshot What this does is make a bmp screenshot.

Using the concept of a stitched photo, you can overlap Snapshots - and then print all these out -with a decent supply of celaphane tape - you can get the full view of the field -- or as much as you have chosen to view.

I find this particularly helpful on an initial troop dispositions - and the surrounding terrain ... I have got to do this for Smolensk -as the map is huge and the main units are fairly well spread out at the start.

It also bears noting that when taking a screen shot - no matter where your unit menu is, all that gets 'shot' is the map and what is on it.

[rahamy]

I believe that's already been done for all the PZC titles, and Glenn has links to the files on his site. If not e-mail him and you can probably get them. Hasn't been done for any of the other games though that I am aware of.

Regards,
Rich

[trauth116]

I will have to check further - but I had found was smaller than what I was looking for (also it varies based upon the scenario) I was looking for the at start dispositions -in this case of the German Army in S 41.

/Edited/ - Rahamy is correct - there are links to this on Glenn's main page -- the S 41 map comes in a 896 x 668 pixels...

Although what I have in mind is printing off each section of the s 41 map -- I 'snapshott-ed' it out this morning, and at max 2d resolution - the S 41 map is 11 snapshopts - which is a little less than 11 sheets of standard printer paper (at the screen res I am using on my monitor). It is probably another 10-11 pages wide --- doing the math - it would take more than 100 sheets of paper to print this in a resolution that is still a little smaller than a standard paper boardgame would be (estimating this based on the counter sizes on the printouts I have done).

- A valid question might be what is the point? Well there are a few -- one -is that apparently I wanted to screw up my yellow ink print head and make myself late for work this AM (nm that :whistle: ) ...

But it is more about getting a relative idea for someone used to boardgames -- that this series equates to some of the biggest monster games available in the 70's and 80's...

I have to do this -- although I think I need to hit Ebay to stock up on the knock-off no name brand ink first.

I want to print the thing out in 2d scale - and then tack it up on my basement wall -and photo the thing.... I don't really know why I need to do this - just that I do... it seems like some good website material...

OK my lunch is over here - back to work ....

[rahamy]

LOL! Good stuff...post the picture when you get it done!:thumb:

[trauth116]

Updated dimensions

I found my ruler at work (which was what was stopping a more precise measurement yesterday).

I think conventional counter sizes are 3/8ths of an inch - measure my print out of maximum 2D - the counters come out to 1/4 inch when a screeshot is printed on a single sheet of 'standard size' printer paper.

Which in effect means that in order to reproduce Smolensk '41's campaign map as a standard sized board wargame it would 19 x 19 sheets of paper ( give or take a sheet). Since I underestimated slightly -- it probably is pretty close.

1) you are talking 361 sheets of 11 x 8 printer paper to make this map ... and the dimensions would roughly be 12 ft 8 inches tall by 17.5 ft wide.

Whoa... (and the amazing thing is that the new Alamein 42 game's big map is even larger)

-> Ok will work on getting some tangible tips and/or links this weekend

btw the ink is ordered and paid for ...:thumb:

[dannybou]

Trauth did you start the large Smolensk 41 scenario over? Where are you now?

[trauth116]

Yes - turn 7 and counting -- call it multi-tasking -- am waiting on the AI to finish processing -- so far I have some bridgeheads between Orsha and Mogilev -per air recon - there is about nothing in front of me -- which will soon put me on the spot - to make some decisions... am breeching the river before I have anough follow on units I think.

[Glenn Saunders]

> am waiting on the AI to finish processing

Fasten your seat belt and press F7 - you won't be waiting long for the AI I can tell you. <G>

Glenn

PS: F5 will restore regular speed!

[dannybou]

Originally posted by trauth116
Yes - turn 7 and counting -- call it multi-tasking -- am waiting on the AI to finish processing -- so far I have some bridgeheads between Orsha and Mogilev -per air recon - there is about nothing in front of me -- which will soon put me on the spot - to make some decisions... am breeching the river before I have anough follow on units I think.

OK I'm at turn 24 and have taken all three cities. Casualties are at least double for the Russians. I am playing the Germand. My Corps are heading east and encountering slight resistance. Man I love this game.

[dannybou]

Originally posted by Glenn Saunders
> am waiting on the AI to finish processing

Fasten your seat belt and press F7 - you won't be waiting long for the AI I can tell you. <G>

Glenn

PS: F5 will restore regular speed!

I use that setting all the time Glenn. For me it's the best. On a sidenote, do you know when alternative art will be available for El Alamein?

[trauth116]

The E 42 art pack gt posted there since your last post DB - check it out.

:thumb:

[dannybou]

Originally posted by trauth116
The E 42 art pack gt posted there since your last post DB - check it out.

:thumb:

Thanks Steve, getting it now.

[trauth116]

Turn 17's Jump Map - I have the Corps organization semi sorted out - but I need to figure out where the HQ for the 57th Pz Korps went to - or if it has even arrived yet.

http://www.trauth116.com/images/pzc_screenies/s41_t17_of_170.jpg

[dannybou]

IIRC it arrives from the N with the Lehr Brigade a little later.

[dannybou]

Originally posted by trauth116
Turn 17's Jump Map - I have the Corps organization semi sorted out - but I need to figure out where the HQ for the 57th Pz Korps went to - or if it has even arrived yet.

http://www.trauth116.com/images/pzc_screenies/s41_t17_of_170.jpg

You've got a few divisions in reserve?

Another tip for the new players would be to avoid combat at night unless already engaged as your units will gain fatigue during the night turns and if they already have accumulated quite a bit from combat, they will break.

[trauth116]

I figure the stuff on the reinforcement track are the reserves -I will get another one up shortly - am at about turn 23 now --- am and in search and destroy mode -- find an enemy artillery unit -particularly in travel mode -then slam them with air.

Anyway the map is changing rapidly.

I got about 2600 points, 1600 before I captured the VP area in Mogilev. Basically I am killing Soviet units at a very rapid pace since I crossed the Dnepr.

[dannybou]

Originally posted by trauth116
I figure the stuff on the reinforcement track are the reserves -I will get another one up shortly - am at about turn 23 now --- am and in search and destroy mode -- find an enemy artillery unit -particularly in travel mode -then slam them with air.

Anyway the map is changing rapidly.

I got about 2600 points, 1600 before I captured the VP area in Mogilev. Basically I am killing Soviet units at a very rapid pace since I crossed the Dnepr.

Yeap same for me. It seems the game is depicting the mass of Soviets who either disrupt or break easily. I also employ the old doctrine of surrounding the divisions and killing them.

[trauth116]

Most of my experience being in N44 -- that trying to encircle division is a good and efficeint way of destroying them - but in this game it looks like the stakes are a lot bigger.

It looks like you have to go for encircling Armies or multiple Corps groups. At any rate I have done jus that -- at the of next turn I will pop another jump map screen shot up - it will be 24 hours later in game terms.

[trauth116]

http://www.trauth116.com/images/pzc_screenies/s41_t28_of_170.JPG

Turn 28 - Part of my situation is I am not entirely sure if some towns are Soviet supply sources.

It looks more spread out that it really is -- I basically tried to cover as many of the roads as possible.

Mogilev is isolated - and will fall on July 10th - depending how the air recon turns out I may go for the city in the East of my 46th Pz Korps ( the one near the farthest advance of my units).

The battle around Vitebsk will pick up - as infantry has arrived -and I have 2 Panzer divisions to smack into whatever is South of town - I'd been pounding whatever Isaw pretty regularly with artillery - and had managed to make the Soviets break off an attack there on the first couple of days of the game.

[dannybou]

I found that the greatest amount of Soviet forces were around Vitebsk.

[trauth116]

Aerial recon confirms that -- going to be a wild time up there ...

I have 2 fresh infantry divisions, with supporting corps level engineers and arty. 2 Panzer Divisions - and the next turn I expect to wipe out the remnants of a Corps North of the Dvina River.

In effect - although tired out - I will have 3 free motorized divisions, the Lehr motorized brigade, and an entire free panzer division on the river North and mostly East of Vitebsk - I need to be able to drive to the river - but I think I spotted the Soviet flank - and it is hanging as wide open as mine was.


In the very South - 1 more turn and Mogilev is going to be free of any Soviets.

And at Orsha- for some reason it appears that there are no Soviets to the East of town --- unfortunately for them - that is where I am with a Panzer Division.

I have lost about 11,000 but taken over 35,000.

[dannybou]

As you can see, I've broken through in the South and central areas. The North is slower as more Russian units are here, but I've crosse two divisions behind the Russians and am in the process of destroying several divisions.

My losses are about 24,000 to 67,000 infantry
138 to 850 guns
534 to 1193 vehicles.

Should be in the mid map cities in a few turns now.

[trauth116]

Forgot to count the guns- and at a different machine anyway atm.

I know I have killed off way more guns than they have of mine.

vehicles -- at the time of the last screen shot it was like 69 to 149 in Soviets' favor.

-however after one turn it is not 81 to 150 in the Soviets favor ( I never really made any contact with the Soviet tank forces - aside from spotting them in and around Vitebsk and Orsha and bombarding them with the arty I massed in those areas.

until turn 28... also - there is nothing up north now - I have some fatigued units - but they can be fatigued and still cut suppliy lines - I am going to move one mtr div to the heavey bridge farthest East in the North.

I had to move a Pz div north directly behind Orsha as the Soviets had some inf apparently on the way to relieve Orsha ... there are some Soviet units on the East Side of Orsha - but my arty is not set up yet - so I won't get a lot done up there. ... took that one VP city without any opposition in the South -- and am fixing to take out the South bank of the Dnepr.

Assaulting Vitebsk in the North - but that might not last too long -- might turn too bloody to contiune... however the 2 Pz Divs up that way have the Soviet flank and are slamming it good -- I foigure I need to freeze the river defenders -and I can cut them off by driving North to South behind them.

[Pirimeister]

Just a :thumb:up for the running commentary you guys are posting. Keep up with it, so we, the "new kids on this block" can get some useful advice/ideas.

Being a TOAW fan since its inception, I feel a bit like "betraying my wife" the way I'm enjoying discovering PzC ;) but what's a guy supposed to do?

My only remark has to do with the zoom levels. I just wished those games had an extra 2D- zoom level, because the 2D normal one is still a bit too small, specialy if your used to the size of TOAW's counters...

Cheers!

[Glenn Saunders]

> I just wished those games had an extra 2D- zoom level, because the 2D normal one is still a bit too small, specialy if your used to the size of TOAW's counters...

Try switching to 3D with counters and you will get more detail on the counters themselves and closer view of the ground too. That is about all I can suggest I'm afraid.

Glenn

[dannybou]

Well I got my speahead almost to Smolensk after a feverish drive east. At first I thought I would get no resistance only to have my recon unit drive right into a few divisions in and around Smolensk. Oh well, I guess I'll have to fight for that 5000 points victory hex.

[trauth116]

I back doored Orsha and got the VP area and the entire East bank of the river -it was guarded by 2 AA units - otoh there is at least a Soviet infantry division on the road East - within probably 30 km. I am thinking I need to block the river crossings - and turn and face these guys.

I found loads of Soviets to the South of Mogilev - there has to be at least 2 Corps - probably more -

I expect the majority of my movement is going to occur in the North as I have loads of troops with free time - and no apparent opposition along the rivers. I expect to be able to cut off Vitebsk and destroy it -while moving Eastward. This game day will be pretty bloody - the reinforcements have slown to a trickle. (And are late to boot) . . .

-I er um owe DB some files in outr other email games - will get on it today I think.

-Maybe the name of this thread should probably be changed to dueling AARs - as we are playing the same game with the same side.

I suppose we ought to list the optional rules used -as I know my bud Danny uses a different set than I do normally.

[dannybou]

My optional rules:

Fast AI
Manual Defensive Fire

The rest are pretty standard.

One more tip:

Try to avoid stacking too many units together. If a thick stack is located by aircrafts and/or artillery, they do some serious damage to the stack.

[trauth116]

On stacking -- vice versa -- see a stack especially if it has enemy artillery - or another high value target - say KVIs or T34s -- by all means go ahead and bomb it..

the only higher priority target for me is if I manage to catch an arty unit in tranport mode ... I managed to find 2 so far (granted in the space of 30 turns).

I think I need to print off the screen shot in order to list them all -although I noticed that I blew it - I wanted to do explicit supply - oh well - next time - too far into this one.

[dannybou]

Yes, if you find an enemy stack of several batallions, bombed the crap out of it. Nebelwerfer works great to disrupt and break those units. Keep your aircrafts for tanks, the heavies like trauth mentionned.

[trauth116]

There is also a sort of 'one two' punch that I have been able to pull off with the Panzer Divisions -- a Pz unit and a motorized/mech infantry unit generally can go one hex and sill be able to assault -- it has been possible to assault the same group - cause it to be battered and retreat - and then nail it again with a second group (depending on how you group your units) ... pretty devastating it seems.

It is getting close to another day break jump map shot - 3 more turns until it (well parts of 3 turns anyways).

If things were not moving so fast I might have time for a closer view -- but no guarantees.